Stephen Frears is as dark witty and English as his best films. That's a big compliment for the man who directed The Grifters and Dangerous Liaisons.
After a period where he made films that didn't live up to their expectations Frears bounced back with the hit film High Fidelity which launched Jack Black and showed that a novel written by an Englishman could be filmed in Chicago.
His latest noir picture is Dirty Pretty Things which impressed Miramax so much that they bought the film before it was even shot. Dirty Pretty Things is set in London's secret underworld, where everything is for sale. It's the story of a young man, Okwe [Chjwetel Ejiofor] and a Turkish chambermaid, Senay [Audrey Tautou], who work at the same West London hotel - a breeding ground for illegal activity. They are put to the test when Okwe makes a shocking discovery late one night. Dirty Pretty Things is in limited release right now.
Check out the website for Dirty Pretty Things.
Daniel Robert Epstein: I read you described Dirty Pretty Things as a Gothic horror story.
Stephen Frears: I never said that. But I can see that aspect as part of it with the horror element. It's also a thriller, a romance and all sorts of things.
DRE: You gained quite a Goth following though with some of your pictures.
SF: Me? I think you're mistaking me for the director of Scream.
DRE: Well The Grifters and Mary Reilly have that following.
SF: Well let's leave out Mary Reilly. The Grifters isn't gothic. It's sophoclean. I absolutely reject the gothic idea. It's Americana.
DRE: So this issue of organ theft is very real.
SF: Yes it's very boring now because it's in every film. I'm sure if you look in Bad Boys 2, a few kidneys are there.
DRE: [laughs] Do you think the idea of organ theft is a whole new sub economy?
SF: Its just economics. It goes on and is quite banal. If you need money you sell a kidney. If you put people in desperate situations that's what they will do.
DRE: Why was it important to make the main character a Nigerian immigrant?
SF: That's what the writer wrote about. There are quite a few Nigerians and Turks who live in London. I don't think it's a serious examination of Nigerian issues.
DRE: You like to deal a lot with ethnic cultures in London.
SF: I don't know if I agree with that. I was brought in a middle class English way. I now live in a multicultural society in London which is rather like New York City. That's just what happened and I find that very enjoyable because I found the English society I was born into rather dull so I don't think I'm particularly interesting immigrants. That's where the vitality is.
DRE: Has it given you a way to examine your own Englishness?
SF: Yes it has. Ever since Salman [Rushdie] wrote Midnight's Children, that's been the source of the most interesting work out of England. England is a very small country so it's hard to find something new and fresh. I never moved to America. But I can see when I make a film in England it tends to be around these areas because I find good stories.
DRE: What was it like working with Audrey Tatou?
SF: Its how the world should be.
DRE: What made you think of her for this movie?
SF: At the time I think Amelie [released in 2001] had opened in France and I read about the phenomenon. I think somewhere in my mind I might have associated the role with her. Then people whisper in your ears. Then I met with her.
DRE: Was it tough for her to learn English for the role?
SF: She was terrified and she made herself learn it. We had a great voice coach on set.
DRE: Why was it important for her to be Turkish?
SF: Well had she been Somali then that's what she would have been. But if you're lucky then all those things occur in a movie and makes sense. When I read the screenplay it made sense to me that she was Turkish because I believed. The screenplay was very well written and very thorough to the point where it all works even on the unconscious level. One of the reasons I've liked the scripts I've liked is because the writer introduces you to a complete world.
DRE: I spoke with Neil Jordan recently about The Good Thief. He agreed with me that film noir is such a malleable genre that you can take this genre and put almost any kind of statement in the movie you want and it will still be entertaining.
SF: That might well be right. It's a very European concept as well. Even the film noirs that came out of Hollywood were largely the works of Europeans.
DRE: What appeals to you so much about film noir?
SF: They're good stories. It's a good way of telling a story. The idea of using crime stories of touching on more complex issues. The Maltese Falcon [released in 1941] is about greed and all those things rather than who's got the bird. It's a very effective way of telling stories. When Hanif Kureishi [writer of the Frears directed My Beautiful Laundrette & Sammy and Rosie Get Laid] walked into my life what really walked into my life was a really good writer but he happened to have Pakistani genes. So I've just gone where it's interesting. So the changes in what constitutes Englishness have been very interesting.
DRE: I see you're coming back to Hollywood with Monkeyface [attached to star were Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones].
SF: That would have been right but the movie collapsed last week. They couldn't make a deal with the stars.
DRE: Why would you want to go to Hollywood?
SF: Because making films in America has been terrific and tremendously enjoyable. It also reaches you new things. I was also offered a great story.
DRE: You made one of the seminal music related films, High Fidelity. What do you think about the cult that has grown around that film? There was one theatre that didn't stop playing for a year.
SF: Well I'm surprised that every theatre in America stopped playing it. I'm shocked even [laughs]. I was very aware that the book meant a lot to people. I didn't monkey around with it. I put the book right at the center.
I remember when I asked to make it that I thought, this is about people who really care about music, so it's a good chance to reach a young audience. I know nothing about music and I argued that High Fidelity could only be made by someone who knew nothing about music. Had I known anything about music I would have gone mad.
DRE: What do you think of the fact that Jack Black has become such a star now?
SF: Well Jack became a big star because he's brilliant. I can see when I was directing him that he had the opportunity to show everybody how brilliant he is.
DRE: A lot of your films are about people marginalized in a certain part of society.
SF: Yes but like I said since I am a good middle class English boy that's an emotional thing that i identify with. Even Dangerous Liaisons is about marginal people in the upper classes.
DRE: I could sit here for two hours talking about Jim Thompson [author of the novel, The Grifters]. What other books have you read of his and would you film another of his novels?
SF: I don't know. At the time I was so full and excited of that film because [producer Martin] Scorsese had asked someone what were the great unfilmed novels and was told The Grifters. I was sent The Grifters before I made Dangerous Liaisons [released in 1988] so it occupied my mind for about two years before I made it. I would find myself on the plane to America and I would read the book again and think it was really great. I don't really know his other novels. I read A Hell of a Woman and liked it very much then I read it again and didn't like it as much.
DRE: How do you pick your scripts?
SF: Instinct. I read something and want to make it. It's that simple. If you make a film like [Dirty Pretty Things] then you're in the business of creating a brave new world. A good script is fantastic but then you have to go to actors that work. If you put Hugh Grant in the middle of this then it will lose some of its originality. He's talented but you will lose that. So you have to use actors that haven't been used like this before and find they are incredibly talented.
DRE: You had a period of time in the mid-90's where your films [Hero & Mary Reilly] were not successful critically or commercially. You said you pick your films by instinct. Were your instincts incorrect on those films?
SF: I think I got muddled on those two films. I think the business of spending that amount of money was rather intimidating. I didn't understand it. I feel more comfortable when I understand the economics. They were both Hollywood films which have their own arcane way of accounting which I'm sure makes sense to them. I would like to have made Hero as a cheap film. It had a plane crash and I didn't know how to do that. The script was terrific and I had a good time making it. You make films in the studio system and it is like a different ????? which I wasn't prepared for.
DRE: After that you made smaller films outside of America. Did you take stock of yourself or just find another great script?
SF: No I guess I just picked up a great script. But one is always trying to understand where you got muddled and why you didn't understand something better.
DRE: Are you still challenged?
SF: Absolutely. There are still films I want to make and I hope to make them. But I don't have a pile of scripts somewhere waiting for me. I hope to pick up another script tomorrow to make.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
After a period where he made films that didn't live up to their expectations Frears bounced back with the hit film High Fidelity which launched Jack Black and showed that a novel written by an Englishman could be filmed in Chicago.
His latest noir picture is Dirty Pretty Things which impressed Miramax so much that they bought the film before it was even shot. Dirty Pretty Things is set in London's secret underworld, where everything is for sale. It's the story of a young man, Okwe [Chjwetel Ejiofor] and a Turkish chambermaid, Senay [Audrey Tautou], who work at the same West London hotel - a breeding ground for illegal activity. They are put to the test when Okwe makes a shocking discovery late one night. Dirty Pretty Things is in limited release right now.
Check out the website for Dirty Pretty Things.
Daniel Robert Epstein: I read you described Dirty Pretty Things as a Gothic horror story.
Stephen Frears: I never said that. But I can see that aspect as part of it with the horror element. It's also a thriller, a romance and all sorts of things.
DRE: You gained quite a Goth following though with some of your pictures.
SF: Me? I think you're mistaking me for the director of Scream.
DRE: Well The Grifters and Mary Reilly have that following.
SF: Well let's leave out Mary Reilly. The Grifters isn't gothic. It's sophoclean. I absolutely reject the gothic idea. It's Americana.
DRE: So this issue of organ theft is very real.
SF: Yes it's very boring now because it's in every film. I'm sure if you look in Bad Boys 2, a few kidneys are there.
DRE: [laughs] Do you think the idea of organ theft is a whole new sub economy?
SF: Its just economics. It goes on and is quite banal. If you need money you sell a kidney. If you put people in desperate situations that's what they will do.
DRE: Why was it important to make the main character a Nigerian immigrant?
SF: That's what the writer wrote about. There are quite a few Nigerians and Turks who live in London. I don't think it's a serious examination of Nigerian issues.
DRE: You like to deal a lot with ethnic cultures in London.
SF: I don't know if I agree with that. I was brought in a middle class English way. I now live in a multicultural society in London which is rather like New York City. That's just what happened and I find that very enjoyable because I found the English society I was born into rather dull so I don't think I'm particularly interesting immigrants. That's where the vitality is.
DRE: Has it given you a way to examine your own Englishness?
SF: Yes it has. Ever since Salman [Rushdie] wrote Midnight's Children, that's been the source of the most interesting work out of England. England is a very small country so it's hard to find something new and fresh. I never moved to America. But I can see when I make a film in England it tends to be around these areas because I find good stories.
DRE: What was it like working with Audrey Tatou?
SF: Its how the world should be.
DRE: What made you think of her for this movie?
SF: At the time I think Amelie [released in 2001] had opened in France and I read about the phenomenon. I think somewhere in my mind I might have associated the role with her. Then people whisper in your ears. Then I met with her.
DRE: Was it tough for her to learn English for the role?
SF: She was terrified and she made herself learn it. We had a great voice coach on set.
DRE: Why was it important for her to be Turkish?
SF: Well had she been Somali then that's what she would have been. But if you're lucky then all those things occur in a movie and makes sense. When I read the screenplay it made sense to me that she was Turkish because I believed. The screenplay was very well written and very thorough to the point where it all works even on the unconscious level. One of the reasons I've liked the scripts I've liked is because the writer introduces you to a complete world.
DRE: I spoke with Neil Jordan recently about The Good Thief. He agreed with me that film noir is such a malleable genre that you can take this genre and put almost any kind of statement in the movie you want and it will still be entertaining.
SF: That might well be right. It's a very European concept as well. Even the film noirs that came out of Hollywood were largely the works of Europeans.
DRE: What appeals to you so much about film noir?
SF: They're good stories. It's a good way of telling a story. The idea of using crime stories of touching on more complex issues. The Maltese Falcon [released in 1941] is about greed and all those things rather than who's got the bird. It's a very effective way of telling stories. When Hanif Kureishi [writer of the Frears directed My Beautiful Laundrette & Sammy and Rosie Get Laid] walked into my life what really walked into my life was a really good writer but he happened to have Pakistani genes. So I've just gone where it's interesting. So the changes in what constitutes Englishness have been very interesting.
DRE: I see you're coming back to Hollywood with Monkeyface [attached to star were Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones].
SF: That would have been right but the movie collapsed last week. They couldn't make a deal with the stars.
DRE: Why would you want to go to Hollywood?
SF: Because making films in America has been terrific and tremendously enjoyable. It also reaches you new things. I was also offered a great story.
DRE: You made one of the seminal music related films, High Fidelity. What do you think about the cult that has grown around that film? There was one theatre that didn't stop playing for a year.
SF: Well I'm surprised that every theatre in America stopped playing it. I'm shocked even [laughs]. I was very aware that the book meant a lot to people. I didn't monkey around with it. I put the book right at the center.
I remember when I asked to make it that I thought, this is about people who really care about music, so it's a good chance to reach a young audience. I know nothing about music and I argued that High Fidelity could only be made by someone who knew nothing about music. Had I known anything about music I would have gone mad.
DRE: What do you think of the fact that Jack Black has become such a star now?
SF: Well Jack became a big star because he's brilliant. I can see when I was directing him that he had the opportunity to show everybody how brilliant he is.
DRE: A lot of your films are about people marginalized in a certain part of society.
SF: Yes but like I said since I am a good middle class English boy that's an emotional thing that i identify with. Even Dangerous Liaisons is about marginal people in the upper classes.
DRE: I could sit here for two hours talking about Jim Thompson [author of the novel, The Grifters]. What other books have you read of his and would you film another of his novels?
SF: I don't know. At the time I was so full and excited of that film because [producer Martin] Scorsese had asked someone what were the great unfilmed novels and was told The Grifters. I was sent The Grifters before I made Dangerous Liaisons [released in 1988] so it occupied my mind for about two years before I made it. I would find myself on the plane to America and I would read the book again and think it was really great. I don't really know his other novels. I read A Hell of a Woman and liked it very much then I read it again and didn't like it as much.
DRE: How do you pick your scripts?
SF: Instinct. I read something and want to make it. It's that simple. If you make a film like [Dirty Pretty Things] then you're in the business of creating a brave new world. A good script is fantastic but then you have to go to actors that work. If you put Hugh Grant in the middle of this then it will lose some of its originality. He's talented but you will lose that. So you have to use actors that haven't been used like this before and find they are incredibly talented.
DRE: You had a period of time in the mid-90's where your films [Hero & Mary Reilly] were not successful critically or commercially. You said you pick your films by instinct. Were your instincts incorrect on those films?
SF: I think I got muddled on those two films. I think the business of spending that amount of money was rather intimidating. I didn't understand it. I feel more comfortable when I understand the economics. They were both Hollywood films which have their own arcane way of accounting which I'm sure makes sense to them. I would like to have made Hero as a cheap film. It had a plane crash and I didn't know how to do that. The script was terrific and I had a good time making it. You make films in the studio system and it is like a different ????? which I wasn't prepared for.
DRE: After that you made smaller films outside of America. Did you take stock of yourself or just find another great script?
SF: No I guess I just picked up a great script. But one is always trying to understand where you got muddled and why you didn't understand something better.
DRE: Are you still challenged?
SF: Absolutely. There are still films I want to make and I hope to make them. But I don't have a pile of scripts somewhere waiting for me. I hope to pick up another script tomorrow to make.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
VIEW 3 of 3 COMMENTS
As a note, wasn't there some bad Hugh Grant movie maybe 5-7 years ago where he was embroiled in some shady medical controversy? Random association.
I'm planning on seeing Dirty Pretty Things, but I think it's funny how the ad campaign is focusing on Audrey Tautou... if I weren't aware of the contents of the movie, I might think it were some erotic thriller or something. Heh. (then again, they also pushed her in the ads for L'Auberge Espagnole, in which she played a rather marginal role).
But yay Stephen Frears!