Andrew Clarkin and Simon Pittuck form London's Keith Talent Gallery. With their exhibition space (Keith Talent Gallery), art magazine ("Miser and Now"), art fair (Year 07), and other various future projects, they just might take over the art world. Below is an interview I conducted with Clarkin over Instant Messenger about these projects and how young galleries really can make a difference is shaping the art world for the better...
Caryn Coleman: So we're going to do this interview over the good ol'
uber-cool Instant Messenger. How's IM been treating you?
Andrew Clarkin: I find it very odd, it's a not a real situation. We have so much more to offer in person. It's not instinctual and we can review what we have just said. We can though speak to people easily far away, which is good, but to me it doesn't really offer enough. It's not a substitute for good conversation.
CC: I agree with you about IM. It's a great communication tool that, on the one hand allows for conversation to be easier, allowing you to be close, but on the other hand it also distances ourselves from who we're talking to.
AC: Like all our modern communication "tools" we spend all lot of time not saying much but we feel the need to be communicated with! We are on-call all the time and our generation is addicted to being available. We don't feel alone that much and we need to be on.
CC: I agree.
So, how and when did you and Simon decide to open Keith Talent and do people really call both of you Keith?
AC: We decided one night at Islington art fair, it was London's fair before Frieze. We had both graduated from the RA (Royal Academy) and were painters. At the time painting was dead in the water, it was boring, so, over a pint we shook hands and thought we should open somewhere that could promote painting. We knew nothing but it was exciting and a challange, so we started.
Regards being called Keith, yes we are called it all the time but it's not a problem, it's funny.
CC: And what year was that?
AC: 2001. I gratuated in September 2000 and we had the building by March the next year.
CC: That's putting a plan into action!!
AC: There was nothing else to do!
CC: And now it's like, shit, I have art gallery - what fun!! Ha ha. Sometimes I wonder what the hell I got myself into (both in good and bad times).
AC: A gallery, though, is a place of INTEREST. It's all good. It's a struggle but we are doing good, working towards something.
CC: So, can you talk a little bit about Keith Talent? What's the mission? How many artists are you working with? International? How many shows do you do a year?
AC: There was no mission and still really isn't. KT just came about - the whole thing has always been thought out on the back of a cig packet. Our artists are quite few. We work with some folks that really make great work: Rob Hollyhead, Adam Gillam, Dave Smith, Jack Duplock, Melanie Stodolph, Clunie Ried, Sean Doyle and Mally Mallinson. I wish we had more walls and more months in the year; I want to show more art. Give more people opportunity. It's important, and for the good, but you can't please everyone. We work with a few American artists, David Herbert, David Humphry, and Sarah Bednarak. We want to show artists that are genuine.
CC: Ok, so since you just said that you want more walls and more art, I just have to say that you're quite possibly the only other person I know who tackles (and creates) new projects in the art world to fill in the gaps you think need filling - gallery, summer schools, lectures, publication, and the art fair. Where does your motivation come from?
AC: When I came from the North of England to London, I knew nothing really about art (or the art world). It's important to our business to give those starting out the chance to network, show, discuss, and interact because in the long term it will benenfit the whole system we are working within.
Also, I have a joke here that I can't work out what gallerists do all day!! As you know it's better to be busy, and also Simon and I are creative people, we like to make things HAPPEN.
CC: I kind of can't figure out what other gallerists do all day either. I know that I get so amazed at all the odd stuff that constitutes my work but then there are other dealers who are always chatting and coming around. I like being busy - busy is good. Means you're doing something!!
AC: Sure I guess. We try and not waste any time there. Plus remember this is a business and as much as art is honorable and good, we have to earn the money to keep the walls there so it can be about earning. We have spread ourselves to make ends meet and I'm sure we will continue in the same manner.
CC: So tell me about one of those other things - "Miser and Now." Publishing a magazine is uch a daunting task. But your mag is gorgeous. What can we expect from it in the future?
AC: "Miser" is changing. It's beautiful but time-consuming and expensive to produce. We spend a lot of time making it work. It dawned on me the other day that it is another great space to get stuff OUT there, not the same old shit, Hirst, Emin et. al, but the many people who make good work who are not represented just because of numbers. The [next issue] magazine will be on the shelves in June with Issue 10 and we now have a board working with us to make it happen. Publishing is very difficult but Simon and I run a magazine that one can buy from Glasgow to London, making it hard but very worthwhile. I think also we're growing up with it, we both want to make it better. The future for the title is bright. We always thought "Miser" was an adult magazine, it was a good read and an anti-dote to lots of titles on the newsstand. It's just a matter of time before everyone else catches on. It may go online, or a percentage of it online. I like the idea of starting the articles on the newstand and finishing them online, driving people to a new type of site. We're thinking it through though.
CC: You are launching your second art fair, Year 07, in London this fall. Can you tell me a bit about the new building and how you see the fair growing this year?
AC: Last year we built a fair [Year 06] in 2.5 months; we just got out the starting blocks. We had an idea that fairs follow too similar a model - cold, not very cool, trying too hard. I can't describe it. Zoo, the satellite to Frieze was like a cartoon fair, silly. It's not creative, it's banal, like a mini-Frieze. Why do that? Why can't we have another model? Aqua [Miami art fair] was so good because of its model, it worked! It's just right. The organizers should drive the potential of that home, not try to be like the others. Year 06 had a good identity and this year we are going to be as out there as much possible. With more time we can establish ourselves more - a good fair I'm sure needs a few years to find its feet and we're determined to make something that people will visit and remember for good reasons. Year 06 was the coolest fair in London in last year and the response to 07 let's us know were on the right track.
CC: I absolutely agree that a true quality fair (or artist or gallery for that matter) takes time to develop. I'm leery of instant-success because where do you really go from there without the experience or solid base to learn from? I think that, in the mass of the art fair explosion, having a fair that's different but high in quality will make all the difference. Who wants to be like everyone else?
AC: We're just starting the fair thing, really. It's young. What can we do? What do people want? How far can it go? I hate the idea of the fair as the corporate monster! We have a slight upper hand because we are gallerists, we know what pisses galleries off, and we don't do what they do. Also, other fair organizers try and behave like gallerists or curators with on-site projects that are bad or picking bad galleries (because they want the cash) and we can all see through it. I'd like London in the fall to be like Edinburgh at Fringe time - the CITY gets involved! London has great potential but most organizers can't see that and they get in their bubble, they look after their own disaster, not work together, for a better time for the visitor, it's daft but I'm afraid, British.
CC: We've talked a bit about how, through interesting projects and collaborations, there could be a smaller, more connected art world - one that promotes itself as a united front. I think that especially for galleries our age this is important. What do you think the benefits will be in the long run?
AC: That's simple, we'll know each other. Together we will always make things happen. We are too closed, most of the time, to offers. I want to swap and exchange and have ideas that give each of us voice. We all want the same thing really, to survive and to further the careers of our colleagues and artists. You know, we have so much opportunity to do such amazing things and we should all just do it! Get on with it, bit by bit we'll make great and unusual things happen but were all to caught up in the everyday. I am proud of what Simon and I take on, we want to make sure KT is never forgotten about and does good things. In the long run I hope that our contemporaries realize that this is not about being better than other spaces, only about promoting what WE like, and the more we do that to a high standard, the better.
CC: Can you talk about the summer school program you're working on?
AC: We got the opportunity to use this space, Trinity Buoy Wharf. It's a huge space on the docks. It's a bit of a way to get to, so we considered what we could do with it. We have organized an open that is for students at London colleges. It's really a networking thing, a one-off show, a chance to get together. Then we spoke to VCU [Virginia Commonwealth University] about the idea of students coming from overseas because we liked the idea of young poeple getting together for an experience. Caryn, when you and I go to fairs, yes it's a selling experience, but it's also a networking thing. I thought this could be good, when I was a student I didn't do anything like that. Also, we have always talked about the idea of a private school, why not? Start an art school! I love the idea. Art schools in London will vanish because of SPACE & MONEY so this is the start to working towards the art school idea with good young artists feeding off one another in a collective experience. Again, it's a good thing. We can, with the help of UEL (University of East London), make a start with it.
CC: So what's the connection between UEL and VCU?
AC: We are.
CC: I think it's cool we're doing an interview together because we've talked so much about them lately. You plan to start interviewing your artists. Besides being documentation, interviews are an insightful way for people to learn more about artists or gallerists or curators. What do you want to achieve by doing them with your artists?
AC: Well, in a perverse way I like to put them on the spot! I think, though, the web is amazing and, with an with an early enough start, a resource would be amazing. The furthest galleries do here is listing services. Saatchi has a good site but it's so difficult to navigate. The notion of a site everyone can add to themselves with artists interviews would be a fantastic resource. When I was on my under-graduate we all wanted this book by Richard Diebenkorn but it was always out at the library. Now all the students can see art whenever, online. I like the idea of the spoken word, only because it's the one thing we don't get. We read the interview, we see the art. I would like to hear the when and whatever they were thinking off when they made what we all like to look at, again it's a matter of finding another space to draw attention to art and the artists we are working with, it's a little bit of what Keith Talent has become, a gallery that creates different types of space to show and consider art, I'm pleased to find myself in this position and every day offers the excitement of not knowing what will come! There are lots of opportunities out there and it seems to me to be about grabbing them with both hands, that's what we are tying to do, not let this opportunity slip.
For more information on Keith Talent, Miser and Now, and Year 07 please visit: Keith Talent Gallery
Caryn Coleman: So we're going to do this interview over the good ol'
uber-cool Instant Messenger. How's IM been treating you?
Andrew Clarkin: I find it very odd, it's a not a real situation. We have so much more to offer in person. It's not instinctual and we can review what we have just said. We can though speak to people easily far away, which is good, but to me it doesn't really offer enough. It's not a substitute for good conversation.
CC: I agree with you about IM. It's a great communication tool that, on the one hand allows for conversation to be easier, allowing you to be close, but on the other hand it also distances ourselves from who we're talking to.
AC: Like all our modern communication "tools" we spend all lot of time not saying much but we feel the need to be communicated with! We are on-call all the time and our generation is addicted to being available. We don't feel alone that much and we need to be on.
CC: I agree.
So, how and when did you and Simon decide to open Keith Talent and do people really call both of you Keith?
AC: We decided one night at Islington art fair, it was London's fair before Frieze. We had both graduated from the RA (Royal Academy) and were painters. At the time painting was dead in the water, it was boring, so, over a pint we shook hands and thought we should open somewhere that could promote painting. We knew nothing but it was exciting and a challange, so we started.
Regards being called Keith, yes we are called it all the time but it's not a problem, it's funny.
CC: And what year was that?
AC: 2001. I gratuated in September 2000 and we had the building by March the next year.
CC: That's putting a plan into action!!
AC: There was nothing else to do!
CC: And now it's like, shit, I have art gallery - what fun!! Ha ha. Sometimes I wonder what the hell I got myself into (both in good and bad times).
AC: A gallery, though, is a place of INTEREST. It's all good. It's a struggle but we are doing good, working towards something.
CC: So, can you talk a little bit about Keith Talent? What's the mission? How many artists are you working with? International? How many shows do you do a year?
AC: There was no mission and still really isn't. KT just came about - the whole thing has always been thought out on the back of a cig packet. Our artists are quite few. We work with some folks that really make great work: Rob Hollyhead, Adam Gillam, Dave Smith, Jack Duplock, Melanie Stodolph, Clunie Ried, Sean Doyle and Mally Mallinson. I wish we had more walls and more months in the year; I want to show more art. Give more people opportunity. It's important, and for the good, but you can't please everyone. We work with a few American artists, David Herbert, David Humphry, and Sarah Bednarak. We want to show artists that are genuine.
CC: Ok, so since you just said that you want more walls and more art, I just have to say that you're quite possibly the only other person I know who tackles (and creates) new projects in the art world to fill in the gaps you think need filling - gallery, summer schools, lectures, publication, and the art fair. Where does your motivation come from?
AC: When I came from the North of England to London, I knew nothing really about art (or the art world). It's important to our business to give those starting out the chance to network, show, discuss, and interact because in the long term it will benenfit the whole system we are working within.
Also, I have a joke here that I can't work out what gallerists do all day!! As you know it's better to be busy, and also Simon and I are creative people, we like to make things HAPPEN.
CC: I kind of can't figure out what other gallerists do all day either. I know that I get so amazed at all the odd stuff that constitutes my work but then there are other dealers who are always chatting and coming around. I like being busy - busy is good. Means you're doing something!!
AC: Sure I guess. We try and not waste any time there. Plus remember this is a business and as much as art is honorable and good, we have to earn the money to keep the walls there so it can be about earning. We have spread ourselves to make ends meet and I'm sure we will continue in the same manner.
CC: So tell me about one of those other things - "Miser and Now." Publishing a magazine is uch a daunting task. But your mag is gorgeous. What can we expect from it in the future?
AC: "Miser" is changing. It's beautiful but time-consuming and expensive to produce. We spend a lot of time making it work. It dawned on me the other day that it is another great space to get stuff OUT there, not the same old shit, Hirst, Emin et. al, but the many people who make good work who are not represented just because of numbers. The [next issue] magazine will be on the shelves in June with Issue 10 and we now have a board working with us to make it happen. Publishing is very difficult but Simon and I run a magazine that one can buy from Glasgow to London, making it hard but very worthwhile. I think also we're growing up with it, we both want to make it better. The future for the title is bright. We always thought "Miser" was an adult magazine, it was a good read and an anti-dote to lots of titles on the newsstand. It's just a matter of time before everyone else catches on. It may go online, or a percentage of it online. I like the idea of starting the articles on the newstand and finishing them online, driving people to a new type of site. We're thinking it through though.
CC: You are launching your second art fair, Year 07, in London this fall. Can you tell me a bit about the new building and how you see the fair growing this year?
AC: Last year we built a fair [Year 06] in 2.5 months; we just got out the starting blocks. We had an idea that fairs follow too similar a model - cold, not very cool, trying too hard. I can't describe it. Zoo, the satellite to Frieze was like a cartoon fair, silly. It's not creative, it's banal, like a mini-Frieze. Why do that? Why can't we have another model? Aqua [Miami art fair] was so good because of its model, it worked! It's just right. The organizers should drive the potential of that home, not try to be like the others. Year 06 had a good identity and this year we are going to be as out there as much possible. With more time we can establish ourselves more - a good fair I'm sure needs a few years to find its feet and we're determined to make something that people will visit and remember for good reasons. Year 06 was the coolest fair in London in last year and the response to 07 let's us know were on the right track.
CC: I absolutely agree that a true quality fair (or artist or gallery for that matter) takes time to develop. I'm leery of instant-success because where do you really go from there without the experience or solid base to learn from? I think that, in the mass of the art fair explosion, having a fair that's different but high in quality will make all the difference. Who wants to be like everyone else?
AC: We're just starting the fair thing, really. It's young. What can we do? What do people want? How far can it go? I hate the idea of the fair as the corporate monster! We have a slight upper hand because we are gallerists, we know what pisses galleries off, and we don't do what they do. Also, other fair organizers try and behave like gallerists or curators with on-site projects that are bad or picking bad galleries (because they want the cash) and we can all see through it. I'd like London in the fall to be like Edinburgh at Fringe time - the CITY gets involved! London has great potential but most organizers can't see that and they get in their bubble, they look after their own disaster, not work together, for a better time for the visitor, it's daft but I'm afraid, British.
CC: We've talked a bit about how, through interesting projects and collaborations, there could be a smaller, more connected art world - one that promotes itself as a united front. I think that especially for galleries our age this is important. What do you think the benefits will be in the long run?
AC: That's simple, we'll know each other. Together we will always make things happen. We are too closed, most of the time, to offers. I want to swap and exchange and have ideas that give each of us voice. We all want the same thing really, to survive and to further the careers of our colleagues and artists. You know, we have so much opportunity to do such amazing things and we should all just do it! Get on with it, bit by bit we'll make great and unusual things happen but were all to caught up in the everyday. I am proud of what Simon and I take on, we want to make sure KT is never forgotten about and does good things. In the long run I hope that our contemporaries realize that this is not about being better than other spaces, only about promoting what WE like, and the more we do that to a high standard, the better.
CC: Can you talk about the summer school program you're working on?
AC: We got the opportunity to use this space, Trinity Buoy Wharf. It's a huge space on the docks. It's a bit of a way to get to, so we considered what we could do with it. We have organized an open that is for students at London colleges. It's really a networking thing, a one-off show, a chance to get together. Then we spoke to VCU [Virginia Commonwealth University] about the idea of students coming from overseas because we liked the idea of young poeple getting together for an experience. Caryn, when you and I go to fairs, yes it's a selling experience, but it's also a networking thing. I thought this could be good, when I was a student I didn't do anything like that. Also, we have always talked about the idea of a private school, why not? Start an art school! I love the idea. Art schools in London will vanish because of SPACE & MONEY so this is the start to working towards the art school idea with good young artists feeding off one another in a collective experience. Again, it's a good thing. We can, with the help of UEL (University of East London), make a start with it.
CC: So what's the connection between UEL and VCU?
AC: We are.
CC: I think it's cool we're doing an interview together because we've talked so much about them lately. You plan to start interviewing your artists. Besides being documentation, interviews are an insightful way for people to learn more about artists or gallerists or curators. What do you want to achieve by doing them with your artists?
AC: Well, in a perverse way I like to put them on the spot! I think, though, the web is amazing and, with an with an early enough start, a resource would be amazing. The furthest galleries do here is listing services. Saatchi has a good site but it's so difficult to navigate. The notion of a site everyone can add to themselves with artists interviews would be a fantastic resource. When I was on my under-graduate we all wanted this book by Richard Diebenkorn but it was always out at the library. Now all the students can see art whenever, online. I like the idea of the spoken word, only because it's the one thing we don't get. We read the interview, we see the art. I would like to hear the when and whatever they were thinking off when they made what we all like to look at, again it's a matter of finding another space to draw attention to art and the artists we are working with, it's a little bit of what Keith Talent has become, a gallery that creates different types of space to show and consider art, I'm pleased to find myself in this position and every day offers the excitement of not knowing what will come! There are lots of opportunities out there and it seems to me to be about grabbing them with both hands, that's what we are tying to do, not let this opportunity slip.
For more information on Keith Talent, Miser and Now, and Year 07 please visit: Keith Talent Gallery
zoetica:
Andrew Clarkin and Simon Puttick form London's Keith Talent Gallery. With their exhibition space (Keith Talent Gallery), art magazine ("Miser and Now"), art fair (Year 07), and other various future projects, they just might take over the art world. Below...