An interesting article from NPR regarding the newer Japanese phenomenon of "herbivores".
That article was linked in the forums of another website. The thread discussion was pretty predictable; mocking, belittling criticism of the manhood of the gentlemen. That, in and of itself, wasn't so surprising, but I was curious as I read the responses from other men. How many of them were being completely fake about their scorn?
I have never been approached romantically by a woman. Ever. Here's an exchange :
Him :
when was the last time you got laid?
Because what you're saying is that you can get behind giving up. That's what these guys are doing.
Me :
Last night? Way to draw generalizations and contribute, man.
Addendum : No, what I'm saying is that I get tired of, putting it simply, "doing all the work". I have never been approached romantically, even casually, by a woman. Every relationship I've had in my adult life - long term, short term, casual, sexual - has been something I've initiated.
I have met a lot of really beautiful, captivating women recently and hit it off with a good amount of them. I consider myself to be a determined dude, but even I get weary of finding interesting people with whom I feel I have a lot in common, spending the energy on learning enough about them to approach them in a manner that will be both appreciated and will facilitate a like response, and get the blow-off. I'm an adult; if a person isn't interested, then I don't take that personally. But doing something like, say, sending out 10 messages or approaching 4 or 5 women in the bar over 5 or 6 hours and getting nowhere can batter your self-esteem and put you in a mindset that says, "Fuck. This."
I know I'm not alone. In private conversation, the same theme comes up time and time again amongst my single friends, and the response to a statement like, "I'd join a monastary and take a vow of chastity if it meant I could still masturbate," recieves a chorus of, "Dude, me fucking, too." in response.
Him :
Then why the hell does their defeatism not seem abhorrent to you?
The only people who could adopt the attitude these men have is those who have lost all hope of actually succeeding. They are wrapping up their fear of failure and their lack of self-worth in a false subculture and things entirely unrelated to their inability to establish a relationship with the opposite sex. There is nothing admirable about this.
That better?
Me :
Where do you see a sense of defeatism? All of the men this article interviews confess that they're open to the idea of having a relationship with a woman. Most of them probably crave it intensely. But they're being forced into a situation where someone else makes the decision for them that it's their responsibility, as the representative from the male gender, to deal. Your verbage accuses them of being fearful and obstructed by their issues without ever addressing how a lot of the women they encounter on a day-to-day basis could have the very same social fears holding them back, but your gender stereotypes disparage them as having a "lack of self-worth" because it's obviously their duty to have to soldier on, since they were born with a penis.
That exchange is with another man, one I know empathizes with the men in the article. It's hard not to. As a gender, we are placed into pre-defined roles that do not ease as time passes. As our culture moves into the future, the gender norms for women become more fluid, but men are still pounded into the same narrow box. Yet there he is, basically implying that these men aren't men at all.
Is it some sort of response from the primal biology of the brain that tries to dictate our lives be about breeding alone? I don't understand it at all.
That article was linked in the forums of another website. The thread discussion was pretty predictable; mocking, belittling criticism of the manhood of the gentlemen. That, in and of itself, wasn't so surprising, but I was curious as I read the responses from other men. How many of them were being completely fake about their scorn?
I have never been approached romantically by a woman. Ever. Here's an exchange :
Him :
when was the last time you got laid?
Because what you're saying is that you can get behind giving up. That's what these guys are doing.
Me :
Last night? Way to draw generalizations and contribute, man.
Addendum : No, what I'm saying is that I get tired of, putting it simply, "doing all the work". I have never been approached romantically, even casually, by a woman. Every relationship I've had in my adult life - long term, short term, casual, sexual - has been something I've initiated.
I have met a lot of really beautiful, captivating women recently and hit it off with a good amount of them. I consider myself to be a determined dude, but even I get weary of finding interesting people with whom I feel I have a lot in common, spending the energy on learning enough about them to approach them in a manner that will be both appreciated and will facilitate a like response, and get the blow-off. I'm an adult; if a person isn't interested, then I don't take that personally. But doing something like, say, sending out 10 messages or approaching 4 or 5 women in the bar over 5 or 6 hours and getting nowhere can batter your self-esteem and put you in a mindset that says, "Fuck. This."
I know I'm not alone. In private conversation, the same theme comes up time and time again amongst my single friends, and the response to a statement like, "I'd join a monastary and take a vow of chastity if it meant I could still masturbate," recieves a chorus of, "Dude, me fucking, too." in response.
Him :
Then why the hell does their defeatism not seem abhorrent to you?
The only people who could adopt the attitude these men have is those who have lost all hope of actually succeeding. They are wrapping up their fear of failure and their lack of self-worth in a false subculture and things entirely unrelated to their inability to establish a relationship with the opposite sex. There is nothing admirable about this.
That better?
Me :
Where do you see a sense of defeatism? All of the men this article interviews confess that they're open to the idea of having a relationship with a woman. Most of them probably crave it intensely. But they're being forced into a situation where someone else makes the decision for them that it's their responsibility, as the representative from the male gender, to deal. Your verbage accuses them of being fearful and obstructed by their issues without ever addressing how a lot of the women they encounter on a day-to-day basis could have the very same social fears holding them back, but your gender stereotypes disparage them as having a "lack of self-worth" because it's obviously their duty to have to soldier on, since they were born with a penis.
That exchange is with another man, one I know empathizes with the men in the article. It's hard not to. As a gender, we are placed into pre-defined roles that do not ease as time passes. As our culture moves into the future, the gender norms for women become more fluid, but men are still pounded into the same narrow box. Yet there he is, basically implying that these men aren't men at all.
Is it some sort of response from the primal biology of the brain that tries to dictate our lives be about breeding alone? I don't understand it at all.