William H. Macy has taken on the role of Bernie Lootz in The Cooler. Bernie is a Las Vegas loser who has such bad luck that he is a paid by, Alec Baldwins character of a casino owner, to suck the good luck from a gambler who is winning. It isnt until Bernie finds true love in a young cocktail waitress, played by Maria Bello, that his luck turns around. Good luck is good for Bernie and his new love but starts to ruin Baldwins casino. Now Bernie must figure out a way to get them out of Las Vegas without getting killed.
William H. Macy in his own words is very like his character, Bernie Lootz, in The Cooler but Macy has had nothing but good luck since his Oscar nomination for Fargo in 1996. Since then he has worked with Paul Thomas Anderson in Magnolia and Boogie Nights, reteamed with David Mamet in State and Main and written a number of television movies including Door to Door which won him well deserved Emmys for Outstanding Lead Actor and Outstanding Writing.
Macy takes a lot of risks with The Cooler. Its a throwback to the extreme loser role in Fargo and also his first love scene in his 30 year career. He wears it well and has a very tight ass. Its great to see Macy return to noir after such a long absence from the genre. This is Macys most daring role since he first worked with David Mamet in such films as Homicide and House of Games.
Check out the website for The Cooler.
William H. Macy: Where can I get the Paris Hilton tape?
Daniel Robert Epstein: I saw it on ebay last night.
WM: Oh no theyre selling it on ebay? I thought you could download it somewhere. Oh my god.
DRE: I think she apologized for it in todays paper.
WM: I dont know much but if youre a celebrity or anything, dont videotape yourselves having sex. It will come out.
DRE: Shes such a quasi-celebrity. She hasnt done anything to do make her a celebrity except dance on some tables.
WM: She has now [laughs].
DRE: I did read that you were a little reticent to take this role because its not dissimilar to other roles youve played.
WM: I was tired of playing losers. I thought it was a bad career choice to do it anymore. It was an indie, I have two little kids and it was shooting out of town. It just had so many strikes against it. But I couldnt put it out of my mind. I loved the story and truth to tell [my character] Bernie Lootz is a winner at the end of it. Its the little guy who stands up and beats everybody. It kept coming back to me the idea of getting the girl. He is a character that in the beginning of the film is only acted upon. It could become boring so you have to have something you are willing to fight for. Its not always clear what that was.
What also drew me to the script is that vague sense of magic. Theres unlucky and then there is Bernie Lootz. Hes not just unlucky and a loser, hes a biblical loser, the uber-loser. The whole notion that when he touches cards, he sort of freezes the luck out of them. Thats a funny notion.
The other thing was that [co-writer/director] Wayne [Kramer] and [producer] Ed Pressman just ignored me whenever I said no. I would pass then they would come back to me. Wayne was like a dog with a bone, it was very flattering. I was wrong and they were right. I think its a good career move because I feel like this movie might hit.
Those love scenes were intriguing and I think every actor wants to try them. I could have tired them when I was 30 rather than 50 [laughs] when I was in good shape. Something happened a couple of years ago people started saying to me Hey youre in good shape for your age. I knew that the writing was on the wall.
DRE: A friend of mine was actually impressed with your butt.
WM: He or she?
DRE: She.
WM: Good, good.
DRE: I heard you had a little help from your friend Jim Beam for the nude scenes.
WM: Ill admit it. I was scared to death. Maria Bello and I met early. She told me she was a hippie so it was no big deal for her to take off her clothes. We rehearsed the scenes so there was actual acting in it so it wouldnt become simulated humping. I cant watch that anymore. I cant even watch people kissing Ive turned into such a prude. Im really proud of them; I think theyre downright sexy. There is something being negotiated in them plus shes so good looking, stupidly good looking.
DRE: Had you spent time in Las Vegas before this film?
WM: Ive been there but Im not a gambler. I dont like to gamble but I do know Vegas. There are always reasons to go but Im not that much of a fan. Ive always referred to Vegas as the end of Western civilization as we know it. Its kind of horrifying if you look at it in a certain light but if you look at it in another light its just grotesque. When you go to Vegas you see a lot of sad types. Older people with a cigarette dangling out of their mouth just pulling on that lever at the slots over and over again pulling on glasses of scotch. One wonders where the fun is in that. The guys with the hollow eyes who you know just lost a fortune. Its a lot of sadness that is built on fantasy of hitting big. I think that by definition invites dreamers and with dreamers, comes losers.
DRE: Its turned into kind of a Disneyworld now.
WM: Thats the b-plot in our movie. That Alec Baldwin is bemoaning the loss of and protecting the last vestiges of old Vegas, Sin City where you left the spouse and the kids at home. Where you come to act up and what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
DRE: What was it like working with the cast in The Cooler?
WM: It was really excellent casting. First of all I think Alec walks away with this movie. I think its the best Alec Baldwin acting Ive seen in a while and he was very reticent to do it as well because hes rough on the women in this thing. He was going through his divorce and one of the magazines wrote that he beat up his wife. Acting with Alec is like riding a bronco. Hes the real deal when it comes to movie stars because he takes up all the air in the room. When you act with him and hear that voice its like a vacuum.
I was also really impressed with Ron Livingston. I saw him get both barrels from Alec Baldwin in two scenes. He stood there and took it in such a white guy way. A lot of people think that acting is all make believe but its not. It is mano a mano sometimes when you are acting with someone. They can blow you off the screen or off the stage. It takes a similar kind of courage to getting into a boxing ring to act with Alec Baldwin.
DRE: Something attracts you to noir. Youve done them with David Mamet, The Coen Brothers and youve written them yourself.
WM: I know America didnt invent noir but we certainly do it better than anyone else. Im a fan of those thirties and forties noir pictures. I guess actors in general are drawn to that dark side of humanity. Theres something seductive about it. Do you know Mamets play Edmond?
DRE: No I dont.
WM: Its as dark of a piece of writing as Ive probably ever seen anyone do. It was a minor hit onstage in New York and Gregory Mosher directed it. Its about a fella like me that flips out and ends up in prison after he kills someone. Were going to make a movie out of it and Stuart Gordon [director of Re-Animator and From Beyond] is going to direct. Its the ultimate dark nightmarish noir.
DRE: That must mean that Stuarts last movie, King of the Ants, is really good.
WM: Well he got the money for it. I knew Stuart years ago when he was at his theatre company [The Organic Theatre] in Chicago. That will be the darkest Ill ever go in my career. Its nasty and weve got a million bucks to shoot the whole picture. In a horrifying way Im sort of interested in letting my demons strut around a little bit.
DRE: Speaking of those demons. I read a quote you said "Nobody became an actor because he had a good childhood."
WM: Thats actually paraphrased from Dave Mamet.
DRE: What are those demons?
WM: I think more to the point theres a certain kind of person who thrives on the kind of attention an actor gets. Its an unreal sort of attention. Anyone who has ever acted knows what Im talking about. Its a daunting experience. When youre on a film set there is all this activity. Sometimes people are literally running around. Then you see it happen. Its gets very quiet, everyone sits down and 200 eyes are looking at you. When you get it right they can move on. What is required of you is to take all that attention and block it out to only let in the person you are acting with. It takes a certain kind of person who can thrive under that kind of pressure. Whats normal is to not like that attention and be self conscious. I think what David was referring to with that quote is that you have to thrive on the artificial attention and its not completely normal to be alone in a crowd like that. Its an odd skill to have. Im not being very eloquent but there are successful actors who dont like it. They dont like the attention of everyone looking at them. Its an impediment to what they do. They have a tendency to be difficult to work with because they are angry all the time because they are scared out of their wits.
DRE: How is it to go back to just acting after being so successful with your writing?
WM: Its been a trick of my whole career that when one part dies, start another one. I didnt want to work in restaurants or sell insurance so I would switch careers when that ended. In New York I was doing the same play over and over again and wasnt making any money so I started directing. I directed a whole bunch of plays. Then I directed a movie for HBO which was mildly successful but there werent any scripts out there for a new director who had a middling success on HBO. So my friend Steven Schachter told me we should write one ourselves. Then everyone started telling us that the script was a lot like the TV show thirtysomething. I would bristle and say its not like thirtysomething its a screenplay. But Steven said we should send it in to thirtysomething and they said it was just like one of their episodes. So they asked us to write one and that got us off and running. Then I stopped directing when I got more acting work. I dont know much but I know this if you want to guarantee a role for yourself get yourself a non-refundable plane ticket for a vacation youll get a role the next day.
DRE: My favorite Mamet screenplay is Wag the Dog.
WM: Isnt it genius?
DRE: Absolutely and you have one of the best lines in it.
WM: Flan? There are two things I know to be true. There's no difference between good flan and bad flan, and there is no war.
DRE: What does it take to gain David Mamets respect besides being a great actor?
WM: Being a great actor will do it. He loves and adores actors. One of the most flattering things anyone ever said to me was when during a rehearsal for Oleanna [released in 1994]. David was rehearsing an actor and if had this long speech. I look up, David was looking at me and he said How do you do that? My heart almost burst from joy to get that compliment from someone like Dave Mamet is something Ill take to my grave.
Dave is loyal almost to a fault, honorable, smart as a whip and I think all of those things are what he looks for in other people. I also know this; if you cross him you will never get a second chance.
DRE: I rewatched Door to Door for this. It was just a total transformation for you. How long did it take for you to get that?
WM: I went up to Portland and met with Bill Porter. I also watched all the tape on him. Theres something about acting that when you do it well its so easy you doubt it. Ive had the experience a lot. Ive seen other actors do a magnificent take and then screw it up because they dont trust it could be that easy. Thats the way Door to Door was. I could have acted all those scenes for days, even the emotional ones. In my old age Ive realized that when youve done it, stop. Dont make it better do it then stop. Its one of the hardest lessons in acting.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
William H. Macy in his own words is very like his character, Bernie Lootz, in The Cooler but Macy has had nothing but good luck since his Oscar nomination for Fargo in 1996. Since then he has worked with Paul Thomas Anderson in Magnolia and Boogie Nights, reteamed with David Mamet in State and Main and written a number of television movies including Door to Door which won him well deserved Emmys for Outstanding Lead Actor and Outstanding Writing.
Macy takes a lot of risks with The Cooler. Its a throwback to the extreme loser role in Fargo and also his first love scene in his 30 year career. He wears it well and has a very tight ass. Its great to see Macy return to noir after such a long absence from the genre. This is Macys most daring role since he first worked with David Mamet in such films as Homicide and House of Games.
Check out the website for The Cooler.
William H. Macy: Where can I get the Paris Hilton tape?
Daniel Robert Epstein: I saw it on ebay last night.
WM: Oh no theyre selling it on ebay? I thought you could download it somewhere. Oh my god.
DRE: I think she apologized for it in todays paper.
WM: I dont know much but if youre a celebrity or anything, dont videotape yourselves having sex. It will come out.
DRE: Shes such a quasi-celebrity. She hasnt done anything to do make her a celebrity except dance on some tables.
WM: She has now [laughs].
DRE: I did read that you were a little reticent to take this role because its not dissimilar to other roles youve played.
WM: I was tired of playing losers. I thought it was a bad career choice to do it anymore. It was an indie, I have two little kids and it was shooting out of town. It just had so many strikes against it. But I couldnt put it out of my mind. I loved the story and truth to tell [my character] Bernie Lootz is a winner at the end of it. Its the little guy who stands up and beats everybody. It kept coming back to me the idea of getting the girl. He is a character that in the beginning of the film is only acted upon. It could become boring so you have to have something you are willing to fight for. Its not always clear what that was.
What also drew me to the script is that vague sense of magic. Theres unlucky and then there is Bernie Lootz. Hes not just unlucky and a loser, hes a biblical loser, the uber-loser. The whole notion that when he touches cards, he sort of freezes the luck out of them. Thats a funny notion.
The other thing was that [co-writer/director] Wayne [Kramer] and [producer] Ed Pressman just ignored me whenever I said no. I would pass then they would come back to me. Wayne was like a dog with a bone, it was very flattering. I was wrong and they were right. I think its a good career move because I feel like this movie might hit.
Those love scenes were intriguing and I think every actor wants to try them. I could have tired them when I was 30 rather than 50 [laughs] when I was in good shape. Something happened a couple of years ago people started saying to me Hey youre in good shape for your age. I knew that the writing was on the wall.
DRE: A friend of mine was actually impressed with your butt.
WM: He or she?
DRE: She.
WM: Good, good.
DRE: I heard you had a little help from your friend Jim Beam for the nude scenes.
WM: Ill admit it. I was scared to death. Maria Bello and I met early. She told me she was a hippie so it was no big deal for her to take off her clothes. We rehearsed the scenes so there was actual acting in it so it wouldnt become simulated humping. I cant watch that anymore. I cant even watch people kissing Ive turned into such a prude. Im really proud of them; I think theyre downright sexy. There is something being negotiated in them plus shes so good looking, stupidly good looking.
DRE: Had you spent time in Las Vegas before this film?
WM: Ive been there but Im not a gambler. I dont like to gamble but I do know Vegas. There are always reasons to go but Im not that much of a fan. Ive always referred to Vegas as the end of Western civilization as we know it. Its kind of horrifying if you look at it in a certain light but if you look at it in another light its just grotesque. When you go to Vegas you see a lot of sad types. Older people with a cigarette dangling out of their mouth just pulling on that lever at the slots over and over again pulling on glasses of scotch. One wonders where the fun is in that. The guys with the hollow eyes who you know just lost a fortune. Its a lot of sadness that is built on fantasy of hitting big. I think that by definition invites dreamers and with dreamers, comes losers.
DRE: Its turned into kind of a Disneyworld now.
WM: Thats the b-plot in our movie. That Alec Baldwin is bemoaning the loss of and protecting the last vestiges of old Vegas, Sin City where you left the spouse and the kids at home. Where you come to act up and what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
DRE: What was it like working with the cast in The Cooler?
WM: It was really excellent casting. First of all I think Alec walks away with this movie. I think its the best Alec Baldwin acting Ive seen in a while and he was very reticent to do it as well because hes rough on the women in this thing. He was going through his divorce and one of the magazines wrote that he beat up his wife. Acting with Alec is like riding a bronco. Hes the real deal when it comes to movie stars because he takes up all the air in the room. When you act with him and hear that voice its like a vacuum.
I was also really impressed with Ron Livingston. I saw him get both barrels from Alec Baldwin in two scenes. He stood there and took it in such a white guy way. A lot of people think that acting is all make believe but its not. It is mano a mano sometimes when you are acting with someone. They can blow you off the screen or off the stage. It takes a similar kind of courage to getting into a boxing ring to act with Alec Baldwin.
DRE: Something attracts you to noir. Youve done them with David Mamet, The Coen Brothers and youve written them yourself.
WM: I know America didnt invent noir but we certainly do it better than anyone else. Im a fan of those thirties and forties noir pictures. I guess actors in general are drawn to that dark side of humanity. Theres something seductive about it. Do you know Mamets play Edmond?
DRE: No I dont.
WM: Its as dark of a piece of writing as Ive probably ever seen anyone do. It was a minor hit onstage in New York and Gregory Mosher directed it. Its about a fella like me that flips out and ends up in prison after he kills someone. Were going to make a movie out of it and Stuart Gordon [director of Re-Animator and From Beyond] is going to direct. Its the ultimate dark nightmarish noir.
DRE: That must mean that Stuarts last movie, King of the Ants, is really good.
WM: Well he got the money for it. I knew Stuart years ago when he was at his theatre company [The Organic Theatre] in Chicago. That will be the darkest Ill ever go in my career. Its nasty and weve got a million bucks to shoot the whole picture. In a horrifying way Im sort of interested in letting my demons strut around a little bit.
DRE: Speaking of those demons. I read a quote you said "Nobody became an actor because he had a good childhood."
WM: Thats actually paraphrased from Dave Mamet.
DRE: What are those demons?
WM: I think more to the point theres a certain kind of person who thrives on the kind of attention an actor gets. Its an unreal sort of attention. Anyone who has ever acted knows what Im talking about. Its a daunting experience. When youre on a film set there is all this activity. Sometimes people are literally running around. Then you see it happen. Its gets very quiet, everyone sits down and 200 eyes are looking at you. When you get it right they can move on. What is required of you is to take all that attention and block it out to only let in the person you are acting with. It takes a certain kind of person who can thrive under that kind of pressure. Whats normal is to not like that attention and be self conscious. I think what David was referring to with that quote is that you have to thrive on the artificial attention and its not completely normal to be alone in a crowd like that. Its an odd skill to have. Im not being very eloquent but there are successful actors who dont like it. They dont like the attention of everyone looking at them. Its an impediment to what they do. They have a tendency to be difficult to work with because they are angry all the time because they are scared out of their wits.
DRE: How is it to go back to just acting after being so successful with your writing?
WM: Its been a trick of my whole career that when one part dies, start another one. I didnt want to work in restaurants or sell insurance so I would switch careers when that ended. In New York I was doing the same play over and over again and wasnt making any money so I started directing. I directed a whole bunch of plays. Then I directed a movie for HBO which was mildly successful but there werent any scripts out there for a new director who had a middling success on HBO. So my friend Steven Schachter told me we should write one ourselves. Then everyone started telling us that the script was a lot like the TV show thirtysomething. I would bristle and say its not like thirtysomething its a screenplay. But Steven said we should send it in to thirtysomething and they said it was just like one of their episodes. So they asked us to write one and that got us off and running. Then I stopped directing when I got more acting work. I dont know much but I know this if you want to guarantee a role for yourself get yourself a non-refundable plane ticket for a vacation youll get a role the next day.
DRE: My favorite Mamet screenplay is Wag the Dog.
WM: Isnt it genius?
DRE: Absolutely and you have one of the best lines in it.
WM: Flan? There are two things I know to be true. There's no difference between good flan and bad flan, and there is no war.
DRE: What does it take to gain David Mamets respect besides being a great actor?
WM: Being a great actor will do it. He loves and adores actors. One of the most flattering things anyone ever said to me was when during a rehearsal for Oleanna [released in 1994]. David was rehearsing an actor and if had this long speech. I look up, David was looking at me and he said How do you do that? My heart almost burst from joy to get that compliment from someone like Dave Mamet is something Ill take to my grave.
Dave is loyal almost to a fault, honorable, smart as a whip and I think all of those things are what he looks for in other people. I also know this; if you cross him you will never get a second chance.
DRE: I rewatched Door to Door for this. It was just a total transformation for you. How long did it take for you to get that?
WM: I went up to Portland and met with Bill Porter. I also watched all the tape on him. Theres something about acting that when you do it well its so easy you doubt it. Ive had the experience a lot. Ive seen other actors do a magnificent take and then screw it up because they dont trust it could be that easy. Thats the way Door to Door was. I could have acted all those scenes for days, even the emotional ones. In my old age Ive realized that when youve done it, stop. Dont make it better do it then stop. Its one of the hardest lessons in acting.
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
VIEW 19 of 19 COMMENTS
that was really funny.