In the year leading up to Kurt Cobain's death, the Nirvana frontman sat down with writer Michael Azerrad and told him the story of his life. From December 1992 to March 1993, the two conversed into the early morning hours in the kitchen of Cobain's Lake Washington home, recording over 25 hours of audio tape laden with stories that spanned from Cobain's childhood in Aberdeen, to his self-realized artistic ambitions in Olympia, to his fame-fatigued last months in Seattle. These tapes were used as material for Azerrads 1993 book Come as You Are: The Story of Nirvana, though it wasnt until now that anyone, save the two involved, had ever heard the conversations.
With the documentary Kurt Cobain About a Son, director AJ Schnack creates a highly personal and moving portrait of an iconic figure who, though many claim to understand, few actually knew. The film layers Cobains narration over new footage shot on location at the late singers stomping grounds in Washington.
One of the films greatest strengths is the degree to which Cobain's sly humor and idiosyncrasies really come through. It is the peculiar details in his stories, such as his short-lived obsession with turtles, which color up a character so often presumed gloomy. It is Kurt Cobain's story told the only way it really can be, in his own words.
SuicideGirls caught up with AJ Schnack to discuss Kurt Cobain About A Son, one of this 2007's most controversial and highly anticipated films
EB: So when I first heard about this film, I thought, Why is this coming out now? Whats the catch? Then I read you werent even interested in making a film about Kurt until you heard about Michael Azerrad's tapes and the fact that they existed. And even he hadn't listened to them since Kurt's death. Were you cautious to step into that territory?
AJ: Well, when I first heard about the tapes I just wanted to hear them. When Michael told me about them my first thought was, Okay, you havent listened to these in 12 years, but how can I convince you to share them with me, someone who you just met not too long ago?" My nephew was 13 at the time and he was starting to get into Nirvana. In talking to him about it I realized that the Kurt Cobain he saw was this guy who was completely encumbered by heroin addiction, a controversial wife and conspiracy theories about his death and all this baggage. When I first started listening to Nirvana and was interested in Kurt, none of that was part of [that story]. To me it was always about this guy who came from a really unlikely place, this logging town on the coast of Washington, who moves to Olympia and then suddenly, in a years time, they were the biggest rock band in the world. On a bigger level, the reason why I wanted to do the film is that Kurt is actually a really important cultural figure of the late 20th Century. He was the first person of my generation to talk about things like divorce, violence against women, gay rights and [other] social issues that he spoke out about in a way that we hadnt really seen a lot of people do.
EB: I love that part where he talks about how everybody in his high school thought he was gay so eventually he developed a sense of gay pride and identified with gay students, even though he was straight. It was hilarious and also very true, that he could identify so much with these issues whether or not they had really happened to him.
AJ: Yeah, the great thing about Kurt and why I think he continues to inspire such strong feelings in people, is because he really does represent this outsider figure who is not part of the popular crowd and having to find your way in the world. Thats still appealing to people and I think that is why people feel protective of him because theres this sense that hes constantly being taken advantage of in some way. Specifically, if anyone feels protective of Kurt, I think Michael is certainly one of those people. People talk about Kurt and make declarative statements -- people who never met Kurt, who never had any intimate knowledge of him, will make these declarative statements about who Kurt is and Michael will just feel like, No, thats not who he was at all. Michael ultimately wanted to do this project because he felt it was a way for him to take some of that back and to again reintroduce [the idea of Kurt].
EB: Its like handing the power back to Kurt, and giving him voice again, post-mortem.
AJ: Exactly. Yeah.
EB: This film is not a standard documentary, especially one that were used to seeing about a person like him, someone still surrounded by so much controversy. Its not a rock doc; Its more or an autobiography. And its been years since his death but people still seem to be so hungry for a definitive portrait of some kind. Nothing has satiated audiences. Maybe nothing ever will but Im still very curious, what do you think audiences still want from Kurt?
AJ: I think they want connection to him. When I see people who are hungry for something, its a feeling of communion with him in a weird way. I think people who were around him at the time felt deprived of by his sudden death and I think the people who have become fans since his death, or discovered him since his death, feel that they missed out on that opportunity. Its a strange thing to talk about when its someone who most people didnt meet and only knew through music. I think a lot of people are still looking for a sense of closure and unfortunately the sort of darker conspiratorial elements that surround his death, not only do they not bring that closure...
EB: ...They take you farther away from it.
AJ: Yeah, they make it more difficult to reach it. This project really was about stripping everything away and letting people have a moment with this man. The film is not about that hes a great musician or the greatest guitar player or any of that. Its really about what it was to be this guy, from this particular place, at this particular time, and its a quiet moment. Thats what is the most different from a traditional rock film. Its mostly this very intimate, quiet experience.
EB: You've said that it was important to you to deny the audience the usual reference points in order to approach Kurt from a new perspective. I agree and I definitely got that feeling from watching the film. Its really odd that the public image of him is still so fucking convoluted and crazy, you know? Do you think its going to make people uncomfortable or upset that its not...
AJ: ...More traditional?
EB: Yeah, it doesnt really give you an opinion or carry any particular message throughout. Instead, it puts a lot of the interpretation and responsibility back into the audience's hands.
AJ: Yeah, people have to have their own experience with the experience, with what theyve seen and what has happened. The funny thing about this style of filmmaking, it fits squarely within a non-fiction tradition that deals primarily in visuals to tell a certain story. I dont look at it like its this hugely groundbreaking thing. But it is different in terms of the rock doc genre and what people expect. There are people who, their dream of a Nirvana documentary is the song theyve never heard before, or the footage of the wedding show theyve never seen. That film will probably be made some day and probably it will be something that Courtney and Chris and Dave on some level will try to work out. This is not a Nirvana documentary. The words, Smells like teen spirit are never said in the film. The word Nirvana is said once in the film and its at the very end. That gives you a sense that its going in a different direction. It really is about time and place and particularly about a sense of place -- what this area of the world was like and remains like today. To some extent its about peoples expectations. There was this very funny thing on our MySpace page where this person wrote, I dont understand, theres no music! Someone wrote, If you need to hear 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' so damn bad, pull out your hot pink iPod and listen to it. I thought that was pretty great [laughs].
EB: About sense of place, is it important for you to have audiences know the significance of these places that you shot, like when you're shooting in Kurt's kitchen or the significance of the post office?
AJ: Right. Yeah that was something we talked about. I just didnt want to clutter up the screen by saying, Actual Place; his actual house; his Dads actual office. I hoped through a combination of people reading about the film and people writing about the film and conveying this information, you know, and they learned something they didnt know before. I did kind of think that people would generally give us the benefit of doubt that, if were going to Aberdeen, that we would actually go to the real places. Ultimately Im happy about the fact that the people are in some ways learning it later and having it bring a new perspective. I hope that people will then want to re-look at it when they know that the opening shot is Kurt's kitchen, where the interviews took place. To me, what is great about any artistic endeavor is that you can experience it in different ways at different times. Hopefully thats something that this film can be.
EB: Its a very simple, quiet film, and really powerful in that way but its also very, very dense. Its filled with a lot of detail.
AJ: Yeah, in shooting it and working on it, we really tried to make every shot count. When people really dont know that thats the case, they refer to the imagery being random, which some people have done.
EB: That seems kind of nave.
AJ: Yeah, it is kind of nave because things are so specific. The post office shot, as hes talking about his drug use and were showing this phone booth outside the post office, thats where they did their heroin deals. My goal is that people will see it and then they feel like theyve seen the world through Kurts eyes and feel like theyve had the experience.
EB: I read that you originally wanted to end it with a Nirvana song and then you realized it was too triumphant for a point of mourning. Im glad you didnt because just hearing the two men, Kurt and Michael, say their good-byes was one of the most poignant ways for it to end. It was one of the most powerful moments in the whole film, to end on that note. Just to hear them say, Alright, Ill talk to you later," and then say each others names because up until that point you really dont hear them say each others names at all. It brings you back to the fact that these guys had a relationship.
AJ: Yeah. I agree with you, the good-bye and the scene before which sort of underlines the depths of his depression that hes had all these moments in the film where he keeps telling you, Oh, if I just have something happen Im going to be happy. You know, If I can just start a band, or If I can make friends in high school, or Get a girlfriend or Pay for an apartment.
EB: Or have a family.
AJ: So at the end for him to say, Ill never have that family. Then you hear Courtney's voice call down to ask him to bring a bottle [for the baby], and he doesnt even realize that this moment has happened and its identifying that he has a family. I find that heartbreaking. To me this is kind of the most special thing I could think of that is out there. I think these interviews are a hugely important cultural document.
EB: And on another level you know, kind of an awesome way for certain people to get closure.
AJ: I know, Michael said that and even I think Charles Peterson and Steve Fisk have said it as well. It was a way. I think one of the things that I really wanted from all those guys, since I never met Kurt, was, after I had cut together with Michaels help, the audio track was the first thing that we did. Then I played it for people who were working on the film, including Charles and Steve, who both knew Kurt and both of them said, Yeah, thats the guy, thats the guy we loved and who was funny. Thats the guy who would piss you off and drive you crazy and make you mad." And that to me thats what I wanted. I mean if they felt that in these conversations we actually tapped in and got the whole person, the good and the bad, which, I think is also slightly different from a traditional view of a music film. We didnt try to make Kurt into more of an icon, or more of a legend in the film. We really wanted to let his flaws show. I think that allowing the whole truth, including the uglier parts of it to come out is the best thing we could have done for him.
"Kurt Cobain About A Son" is in select theaters now. For more information go to www.kurtcobainaboutason.com
With the documentary Kurt Cobain About a Son, director AJ Schnack creates a highly personal and moving portrait of an iconic figure who, though many claim to understand, few actually knew. The film layers Cobains narration over new footage shot on location at the late singers stomping grounds in Washington.
One of the films greatest strengths is the degree to which Cobain's sly humor and idiosyncrasies really come through. It is the peculiar details in his stories, such as his short-lived obsession with turtles, which color up a character so often presumed gloomy. It is Kurt Cobain's story told the only way it really can be, in his own words.
SuicideGirls caught up with AJ Schnack to discuss Kurt Cobain About A Son, one of this 2007's most controversial and highly anticipated films
EB: So when I first heard about this film, I thought, Why is this coming out now? Whats the catch? Then I read you werent even interested in making a film about Kurt until you heard about Michael Azerrad's tapes and the fact that they existed. And even he hadn't listened to them since Kurt's death. Were you cautious to step into that territory?
AJ: Well, when I first heard about the tapes I just wanted to hear them. When Michael told me about them my first thought was, Okay, you havent listened to these in 12 years, but how can I convince you to share them with me, someone who you just met not too long ago?" My nephew was 13 at the time and he was starting to get into Nirvana. In talking to him about it I realized that the Kurt Cobain he saw was this guy who was completely encumbered by heroin addiction, a controversial wife and conspiracy theories about his death and all this baggage. When I first started listening to Nirvana and was interested in Kurt, none of that was part of [that story]. To me it was always about this guy who came from a really unlikely place, this logging town on the coast of Washington, who moves to Olympia and then suddenly, in a years time, they were the biggest rock band in the world. On a bigger level, the reason why I wanted to do the film is that Kurt is actually a really important cultural figure of the late 20th Century. He was the first person of my generation to talk about things like divorce, violence against women, gay rights and [other] social issues that he spoke out about in a way that we hadnt really seen a lot of people do.
EB: I love that part where he talks about how everybody in his high school thought he was gay so eventually he developed a sense of gay pride and identified with gay students, even though he was straight. It was hilarious and also very true, that he could identify so much with these issues whether or not they had really happened to him.
AJ: Yeah, the great thing about Kurt and why I think he continues to inspire such strong feelings in people, is because he really does represent this outsider figure who is not part of the popular crowd and having to find your way in the world. Thats still appealing to people and I think that is why people feel protective of him because theres this sense that hes constantly being taken advantage of in some way. Specifically, if anyone feels protective of Kurt, I think Michael is certainly one of those people. People talk about Kurt and make declarative statements -- people who never met Kurt, who never had any intimate knowledge of him, will make these declarative statements about who Kurt is and Michael will just feel like, No, thats not who he was at all. Michael ultimately wanted to do this project because he felt it was a way for him to take some of that back and to again reintroduce [the idea of Kurt].
EB: Its like handing the power back to Kurt, and giving him voice again, post-mortem.
AJ: Exactly. Yeah.
EB: This film is not a standard documentary, especially one that were used to seeing about a person like him, someone still surrounded by so much controversy. Its not a rock doc; Its more or an autobiography. And its been years since his death but people still seem to be so hungry for a definitive portrait of some kind. Nothing has satiated audiences. Maybe nothing ever will but Im still very curious, what do you think audiences still want from Kurt?
AJ: I think they want connection to him. When I see people who are hungry for something, its a feeling of communion with him in a weird way. I think people who were around him at the time felt deprived of by his sudden death and I think the people who have become fans since his death, or discovered him since his death, feel that they missed out on that opportunity. Its a strange thing to talk about when its someone who most people didnt meet and only knew through music. I think a lot of people are still looking for a sense of closure and unfortunately the sort of darker conspiratorial elements that surround his death, not only do they not bring that closure...
EB: ...They take you farther away from it.
AJ: Yeah, they make it more difficult to reach it. This project really was about stripping everything away and letting people have a moment with this man. The film is not about that hes a great musician or the greatest guitar player or any of that. Its really about what it was to be this guy, from this particular place, at this particular time, and its a quiet moment. Thats what is the most different from a traditional rock film. Its mostly this very intimate, quiet experience.
EB: You've said that it was important to you to deny the audience the usual reference points in order to approach Kurt from a new perspective. I agree and I definitely got that feeling from watching the film. Its really odd that the public image of him is still so fucking convoluted and crazy, you know? Do you think its going to make people uncomfortable or upset that its not...
AJ: ...More traditional?
EB: Yeah, it doesnt really give you an opinion or carry any particular message throughout. Instead, it puts a lot of the interpretation and responsibility back into the audience's hands.
AJ: Yeah, people have to have their own experience with the experience, with what theyve seen and what has happened. The funny thing about this style of filmmaking, it fits squarely within a non-fiction tradition that deals primarily in visuals to tell a certain story. I dont look at it like its this hugely groundbreaking thing. But it is different in terms of the rock doc genre and what people expect. There are people who, their dream of a Nirvana documentary is the song theyve never heard before, or the footage of the wedding show theyve never seen. That film will probably be made some day and probably it will be something that Courtney and Chris and Dave on some level will try to work out. This is not a Nirvana documentary. The words, Smells like teen spirit are never said in the film. The word Nirvana is said once in the film and its at the very end. That gives you a sense that its going in a different direction. It really is about time and place and particularly about a sense of place -- what this area of the world was like and remains like today. To some extent its about peoples expectations. There was this very funny thing on our MySpace page where this person wrote, I dont understand, theres no music! Someone wrote, If you need to hear 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' so damn bad, pull out your hot pink iPod and listen to it. I thought that was pretty great [laughs].
EB: About sense of place, is it important for you to have audiences know the significance of these places that you shot, like when you're shooting in Kurt's kitchen or the significance of the post office?
AJ: Right. Yeah that was something we talked about. I just didnt want to clutter up the screen by saying, Actual Place; his actual house; his Dads actual office. I hoped through a combination of people reading about the film and people writing about the film and conveying this information, you know, and they learned something they didnt know before. I did kind of think that people would generally give us the benefit of doubt that, if were going to Aberdeen, that we would actually go to the real places. Ultimately Im happy about the fact that the people are in some ways learning it later and having it bring a new perspective. I hope that people will then want to re-look at it when they know that the opening shot is Kurt's kitchen, where the interviews took place. To me, what is great about any artistic endeavor is that you can experience it in different ways at different times. Hopefully thats something that this film can be.
EB: Its a very simple, quiet film, and really powerful in that way but its also very, very dense. Its filled with a lot of detail.
AJ: Yeah, in shooting it and working on it, we really tried to make every shot count. When people really dont know that thats the case, they refer to the imagery being random, which some people have done.
EB: That seems kind of nave.
AJ: Yeah, it is kind of nave because things are so specific. The post office shot, as hes talking about his drug use and were showing this phone booth outside the post office, thats where they did their heroin deals. My goal is that people will see it and then they feel like theyve seen the world through Kurts eyes and feel like theyve had the experience.
EB: I read that you originally wanted to end it with a Nirvana song and then you realized it was too triumphant for a point of mourning. Im glad you didnt because just hearing the two men, Kurt and Michael, say their good-byes was one of the most poignant ways for it to end. It was one of the most powerful moments in the whole film, to end on that note. Just to hear them say, Alright, Ill talk to you later," and then say each others names because up until that point you really dont hear them say each others names at all. It brings you back to the fact that these guys had a relationship.
AJ: Yeah. I agree with you, the good-bye and the scene before which sort of underlines the depths of his depression that hes had all these moments in the film where he keeps telling you, Oh, if I just have something happen Im going to be happy. You know, If I can just start a band, or If I can make friends in high school, or Get a girlfriend or Pay for an apartment.
EB: Or have a family.
AJ: So at the end for him to say, Ill never have that family. Then you hear Courtney's voice call down to ask him to bring a bottle [for the baby], and he doesnt even realize that this moment has happened and its identifying that he has a family. I find that heartbreaking. To me this is kind of the most special thing I could think of that is out there. I think these interviews are a hugely important cultural document.
EB: And on another level you know, kind of an awesome way for certain people to get closure.
AJ: I know, Michael said that and even I think Charles Peterson and Steve Fisk have said it as well. It was a way. I think one of the things that I really wanted from all those guys, since I never met Kurt, was, after I had cut together with Michaels help, the audio track was the first thing that we did. Then I played it for people who were working on the film, including Charles and Steve, who both knew Kurt and both of them said, Yeah, thats the guy, thats the guy we loved and who was funny. Thats the guy who would piss you off and drive you crazy and make you mad." And that to me thats what I wanted. I mean if they felt that in these conversations we actually tapped in and got the whole person, the good and the bad, which, I think is also slightly different from a traditional view of a music film. We didnt try to make Kurt into more of an icon, or more of a legend in the film. We really wanted to let his flaws show. I think that allowing the whole truth, including the uglier parts of it to come out is the best thing we could have done for him.
"Kurt Cobain About A Son" is in select theaters now. For more information go to www.kurtcobainaboutason.com
VIEW 6 of 6 COMMENTS
erin_broadley said:
ZakSmith said:
You oughtta hear about Schnack's next project--it's gonna be amazing
do tell?
ask him