Im responding not to argue, but because I don't think this needs to a fight between us.
I think its the overall gathering of information that leads us to this dialogue. Maybe just using the phrase dirty Mexican or just saying negress doesnt qualify someone as being racist, I really dont want to argue that point. However, those words in combination with the Eugenics comment in the profile, the favorite movie listing of the Believer along with those comments paints a different picture.
And if negress isnt a racial slur, Ill eat my hat. I mean, it certainly isnt a term of endearment.
On that note, I have never been to Luxs house. I just thought the aesthetics of decorating rebuttal was interesting.
I know that the swastika wasnt created by the Third Reich. Its become a brand, however we feel about that, and the swastika now means something different to much of the world. It's a symbol that invokes fear and hatred, no longer unity and peace.
Ive heard many great and wonderful things about you and I would imagine well sit down and talk about the politics of class in depth at some point. I dont know if you know anything about me, but I dedicate nearly all of my time working on economic justice issues here in Portland. Nothing makes me happier than talking shop, strategy, and organizing.
What we should keep in mind, however, is the idea of privilege. What you said in your post to floggingchucky is: That is the class I put myself in.
There is an obvious implication in that word choice that I would agree with. I would also consider myself low income but the opportunities I was allowed could have landed me elsewhere, had I chosen that path.
Whichever, I dont really care if anyone on the site is a Nazi, if that person has 10 children of mixed ethnicity, or if that person campaigns for Reparations in free time left over from volunteering at the Jewish Youth Center. I do care that word negress is offensive, that the phrase smelly Mexican is offensive, etc. On a website that is increasingly trying to be welcoming to people of color, I would hope we could leave these nomenclatures off the site.
I have a valid prejudice...I DO NOT like females that look like birds. They're mean, they're quick to jump to conclusions, they're incapable of being open minded, they shove their trip down everyones throat, they're contrived...& they're BAD PEOPLE! Bird Girls, don't like 'em, not one bit. Since I was a little Lux I have always had conflict with these deformed rejects. I may not be a fascist, but I am against females that look like birds.
Eris: In my last post to you, I thought I explicitly pointed out that my issue isnt with Lux as "Nazi." If you can find where I called Lux a Nazi, please tell me. That wasnt me. My concern has been purely with language. The word negress while a techincal term for yall apparently, is not for others. Just like the term jewess would make folks screw up their faces, both jewess and negress have negative racial conotations.
So, regardless of how I feel about Nazis, we can let that rest as I never accussed anyone of being a Nazi.
>>How much 'proof' will ever be enough??
Eris: I dont need proof. No one needs to prove anything to me. Again, I think that certain things, like racist speech, should be left off a website that wants to be inclusive to people of color. This is a website where personality is what you put out. Every member of this site could list an endless stream of anecdotes from their lives to show that they are someone different than who they put forward on the site. Its part of the draw. I dont intend to know everyone biblically because they keep a weblog.
>>How stupid is that?
Eris: Her initial response was, Its unfortunate that you can not accept my personal sense of aesthetic. Thats what I based my comment on in FloggingChuckys, it struck me as an interesting reponse.
>>You know what, I am FIERCELY protective of my friends. And I hate when people can't admit they are wrong. Until you and Chucky face apologize to her and admit she isn't a stupid ass nazi, I can't picture us ever sitting down together. Not to get involved in the shit between you and her, but I imagine you are mad she said she doesn't like women who look like birds. But what do you expect when you go in someone's journal and put words in their mouth! She never said she was enlightened, and you went in there and said that because you had decided she was a nazi. That is really uncool. .
Eris: Why would I appologize for something I never said? Isnt that the crux of the argument here? Chucky has bowed out of this on his accord. He feels that said what he needed to, and now he is done.
And do you really think it bothers me that someone doesnt find me as attractive as I do? Thats why we make a gazillion flavors of icecream, right? It's fine to have different tastes. I think suicidegirls is a testimant to that.
I also am not the one that brought up being englightend to begin with. (Other than obvious illaminatus trilogy references but still, that would be illuminated and not enlightened, eh?) It was something I noticed while pursuing her journal. That comment, futhermore, could have been taken in several different ways. I addressed it to no one. I did not say, Lux, the Nazi, thinks she enlightened. I also did not say, These jerks arguing with Lux claim to be enlightened and that makes me warry. However, an obvious assumption was made, eh? That's what happens when we make ambigious comments, they are often interpreted.
>>I am extremely offended by your post to me. This whole load of shit has been bothering me to no end. Lux and I are both stand up girls. Were she a nazi, and I a friend of nazi, can you really picture either of us not yelling it out proudly? You may as well call both of us liars. It is insulting to no end No matter how many facts we throw up, still no has even said, "okay, maybe I'm wrong." You just want to keep going on with your witch hunt. Jesus christ. She's been studying Judaism for years now! She constantly quotes me Jewish mystycism. She used to be in love with my mexican friend. She bought medicine for my sick kitten. She has friends of every race.
Eris: As for the idea of the whichhunt, I would like to reiterate that I never said anyone was a Nazi. I even attempted to reaffirm my issue with my last post to you that was:
Whichever, I dont really care if anyone on the site is a Nazi, if that person has 10 children of mixed ethnicity, or if that person campaigns for Reparations in free time left over from volunteering at the Jewish Youth Center. I do care that word negress is offensive, that the phrase smelly Mexican is offensive, etc. On a website that is increasingly trying to be welcoming to people of color, I would hope we could leave these nomenclatures off the site.
What I meant by my first line in that paragraph was that regardless of how someone indentifies, I would still be offended by the term negress.
The orginal discorse began over reperations. It moved to racism, which is understandable. I have no interest in arguing about whether or not anyone is a Nazi. I never have had that interest, as Im sure youll see if you take another look.
I feel as though I said a lot in my last post to you. Im curious what you thought about those things?
fyi:
i always read your journal. i love that you speak of painting,your kitty,your love for your friends,and your dreams. this nonsense that has been going on is fucking pathetic. what is ridiculous is that i specifically remember an entry of yours a while back in with you said that you hate skinheads.
i just wanted to let you know that not everyone is ignorant. love to you~a
Im responding not to argue, but because I don't think this needs to a fight between us.
I think its the overall gathering of information that leads us to this dialogue. Maybe just using the phrase dirty Mexican or just saying negress doesnt qualify someone as being racist, I really dont want to argue that point. However, those words in combination with the Eugenics comment in the profile, the favorite movie listing of the Believer along with those comments paints a different picture.
And if negress isnt a racial slur, Ill eat my hat. I mean, it certainly isnt a term of endearment.
On that note, I have never been to Luxs house. I just thought the aesthetics of decorating rebuttal was interesting.
I know that the swastika wasnt created by the Third Reich. Its become a brand, however we feel about that, and the swastika now means something different to much of the world. It's a symbol that invokes fear and hatred, no longer unity and peace.
Ive heard many great and wonderful things about you and I would imagine well sit down and talk about the politics of class in depth at some point. I dont know if you know anything about me, but I dedicate nearly all of my time working on economic justice issues here in Portland. Nothing makes me happier than talking shop, strategy, and organizing.
What we should keep in mind, however, is the idea of privilege. What you said in your post to floggingchucky is: That is the class I put myself in.
There is an obvious implication in that word choice that I would agree with. I would also consider myself low income but the opportunities I was allowed could have landed me elsewhere, had I chosen that path.
Whichever, I dont really care if anyone on the site is a Nazi, if that person has 10 children of mixed ethnicity, or if that person campaigns for Reparations in free time left over from volunteering at the Jewish Youth Center. I do care that word negress is offensive, that the phrase smelly Mexican is offensive, etc. On a website that is increasingly trying to be welcoming to people of color, I would hope we could leave these nomenclatures off the site.