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Penelope Spheeris
By Daniel Robert Epstein
Nov 30, 2005
Penelope Spheeris made her bones flitting back and forth between big budget studio comedies such as Wayne’s World and Black Sheep to edgy independent documentaries, The Decline of Western Civilization series. Her latest film is The Kid & I, a low budget comedy written by and starring Tom Arnold. Arnold plays Bill Williams a down-and-out actor who is unexpectedly hired to write a True Lies-like action film. When Bill learns that his co-star is Aaron Roman [Eric Gores], a cerebral palsy afflicted rich kid with no acting experience. The duo embark on a journey of outrageous misadventures, the unlikely pair discover that it takes more courage to face real life challenges than it does fighting bad guys on the big screen.
Check out the official website for The Kid & I
Daniel Robert Epstein: It’s a pleasure to talk to you; I’ve been a fan for a very long time.
Penelope Spheeris: Well, thank you, I appreciate that. Where are you?
DRE:
I’m in New York.
PS:
How is that?
DRE:
New York’s kind of nasty today.
PS:
[laughs] I’m sorry to hear that.
DRE:
The weather I meant.
PS:
I know what you mean. It’s a beautiful day here though.
DRE:
[laughs] It is always beautiful in LA, isn’t it?
PS:
Yeah, most of the time.
DRE:
[laughs] Except for the people.
PS:
I know, don’t tell me, I know.
Did you get to see The Kid & I yet?
DRE:
Yes I did. I thought it was a very sweet movie, but obviously you guys were working on a limited budget.
PS:
Yeah, it was like five million. We all worked for scale. We shot it here in LA. So if you shoot in LA you can’t do a movie for less than four or five million if you are shooting union. But it was all financed by Eric’s dad.
DRE:
I don’t read the press notes for a movie until after I see the film because I like to be surprised. At first I thought Eric was an actor playing like he had cerebral palsy.
PS:
Oh that’s funny.
DRE:
I had no idea.
PS:
Yeah, it is a kind of a different situation in terms of how the movie came together. It is also a different situation in terms of how the movie is being distributed because we’re distributing it ourselves too.
DRE:
I was reading up on you a little bit more in preparation for this interview and apparently you see a clear delineation between your mainstream films and your non-mainstream films.
PS:
This is definitely not the studio mainstream film here.
DRE:
But it’s not The Decline of Western Civilization Part 4 either.
PS:
No, it’s not. It’s a narrative piece that Tom Arnold wrote.
DRE:
So was it Eric or Tom that made you want to direct this film?
PS:
I knew Tom from the way back days because I was story editor on Roseanne. There are thousands of directors in Hollywood. I don’t know why he decided to send it to me. But I guess he thought I could walk into a studio and get it financed. But we went to every studio and nobody wanted to do it. Then we went to every A list producer to see if we could get them attached and no one would do it. Then I said, “Hey Tom, I got an idea. Why don’t I produce it and we ask Eric’s dad for the money?” So that’s what happened. Tom took a credit because he was able to cast a lot of his friends in it, like Arnold Schwarzenegger. But basically I just worked my ass off for two and a half years on this thing because I just really believed in the kid and I wanted actually to tell a story that would bring a tear to people’s eyes. So it does that and makes them laugh as well.
DRE:
Was the story always going to start out as dark with Tom’s character going to kill himself?
PS:
Yeah, it’s interesting that you bring that up because that was always an issue. I was going for a young adult or a family audience even. But the beginning has Tom about ready to kill himself on pills and alcohol. But when we were shooting The Incredibles came out and it has a guy who jumps off a building trying to kill himself. So we thought we’d go for it.
DRE:
I just saw Tom in Happy Endings and what’s funny is that [Happy Endings writer/director] Don Roos cast him because they know one another from living next door to each other.
PS:
Eric lives right next door to Tom.
DRE:
Is he just hanging out with his neighbors all the time looking for work?
PS:
Yeah, nobody else hangs out with him. Just kidding. I love Tom. Tom lives next door to Eric and on the other side of Eric is Shaquille O’Neill.
DRE:
So that’s why that Shaq is in the movie!
PS:
Oh yeah. It is fun to try figure out the things that really are real and the things that aren’t. Eric’s mom was really worried about her son making a movie. So that was true.
DRE:
You are in The Kid & I as well.
PS:
I know. I can’t believe I actually was in my own movie.
DRE:
[laughs] How did that happen?
PS:
It is just the idea that it’s a movie in a movie. Tom wanted to have a character of a director. I said to him, “Hey man, you know Jim Cameron. Why don’t you get him to be the director?” He goes, “Nope, I think you should be the director.” So I did it and I kept forgetting that I actually had to be in the movie and on the day of shooting I’d wear the wrong clothes.
DRE:
What’s more difficult, directing the governor of California or directing Mike Myers?
PS:
[laughs] That’s a great question. Mike Myers by far.
The governor was actually a total pro. He didn’t have a lot of lines but man he had them down pat and so did Jamie Lee [Curtis]. They must have worked over the years with directors that did 50 takes because I’d get like three takes or so and say, “Ok, that’s it, we‘re done.” They were like, “Oh my God, you don’t need us anymore?”
DRE:
This is an independent movie that looks like a mainstream film, did it take you back to when you were doing films in a more guerilla style?
PS:
Definitely but we definitely tried to make it look good. We shot Hi-Def video. Though it definitely does have that guerilla style going for it because we had a very limited number of days and a very limited crew. Everybody brought their own wardrobe. Everybody just pitched in because we were all doing it for the kid. Nobody was ever in a bad mood either because you can’t be in a bad mood around Eric.
DRE:
When we will see Decline of Western Civilization Part 4?
PS:
I really want to do it. I swear to God. But coincidentally the Declines are coming out on DVD sometime soon. I’ve been working on it for three years now and we got some great stuff that I found in my vault. Now people won’t have to buy shitty bootlegs off of eBay.
DRE:
How much are we in decline now?
PS:
We’re in much more of a decline. The decline just keeps declining. It’s called entropy. It’s just really hard to imagine there ever being the kind of impact there was when punk rock happened in the late 70’s. I really wish there would be one big change like that again, but I don’t know if that’ll ever happen because everything has gotten homogenized.
DRE:
What’s interesting is that people are always talking about the era of the late 70’s and early 80’s. But there isn’t a lot of movement forward. The punk movement was supposed to get you to do your own thing. But now all anyone seems to do is look in the past.
PS:
That’s very true and that is the decline right there. We’re not moving forward, we’re moving backwards.
Me and Johnny Rotten have been talking about doing a movie of his book, No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks. We actually have a script done so hopefully that’s going to happen at some point in our careers.
DRE:
So who wrote the script?
PS:
A young kid whose name I can’t tell you. But he’s a kid straight out of college. He has written it by himself with my guidance.
DRE:
Who would play Johnny?
PS:
John wants Justin Timberlake [laughs]. Isn’t that hilarious? Sometimes I think he’s joking, but sometimes I think he’s for real. I think he really feels that Justin Timberlake can do it.
DRE:
For the last few years you’ve done TV and a couple of smaller documentaries. Do you see yourself not doing big studio comedies anymore?
PS:
Yes I see myself not doing them because they are such a headache.
DRE:
I heard that Senseless was a very difficult shoot.
PS:
It was difficult. They made me reshoot the ending, which I think hurt the movie quite a bit. I got really disillusioned to be honest with you. While I was finishing up Senseless I went out to the Burning Man festival and somebody slipped some ecstasy in my beer. I had the most amazing experience even though I was so sick; I thought I was going to die. But when I woke up I realized that I don’t want to do any studio movies anymore. I’m just going to do documentaries and whatever the hell movies I want to make. It turned out to be a cool thing.
DRE:
With the studio movies you’re happy with. Why did they turn out good?
PS:
I think it is because the times were different then. For the most part studio movies have huge budgets. They don’t do anything under 30 to 40 million dollars. When you have that much money at stake, you have so many people breathing down your neck. I really feel kind of guilty spending 80 million dollars. People are starving in the world. When we did Wayne’s World it was 14 million dollars and they didn’t bug us too much because they just thought it was some little movie that nobody was ever going to see. We showed them.
DRE:
When I saw the Laverne and Shirley scene in Wayne’s World. I literally fell out of my seat in the theater laughing.
PS:
[laughs] That’s awesome. I’m so glad. That wasn’t in the original script. We were just hanging out on the lot one day and Mike says, “Hey, this is the set for Laverne and Shirley, why don’t we write a new scene?”
DRE:
I’m sure you’ve been offered many big films.
PS:
I’ve turned down Legally Blonde. I’ve turned down so many huge movies over the years but I’m very happy doing independent movies. Now with all the technology it is really liberating. So I don’t have any desire to go back to making studio movies at all. I don’t need the money. Thank God, from Wayne’s World. I don’t need the money.
DRE:
What else are you working on besides the Johnny movie?
PS:
I’ve been working on a script for a Janis Joplin movie that hopefully might shoot in the springtime. We want to cast Pink, but let’s see how that works out.
DRE:
What made you think Pink could play Janis?
PS:
The most awesome screen test where we dressed her up like Janis Joplin and she sang three songs and shot three scenes. She did such a great job. She’s my first choice but let’s see how everybody’s schedules work out.
DRE:
What do you think of SuicideGirls?
PS:
I think it is graphically and visually so beautiful. When I go on the website, I have to turn it off because my boyfriend stands behind me [laughs].
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
Penelope Spheeris made her bones flitting back and forth between big budget studio comedies such as Wayne’s World and Black Sheep to edgy independent documentaries, The Decline of Western Civilization series. Her latest film is The Kid & I, a low budget comedy written by and starring Tom Arnold. Arnold plays Bill Williams a down-and-out actor who is unexpectedly hired to write a True Lies-like action film. When Bill learns that his co-star is Aaron Roman [Eric Gores], a cerebral palsy afflicted rich kid with no acting experience. The duo embark on a journey of outrageous misadventures, the unlikely pair discover that it takes more courage to face real life challenges than it does fighting bad guys on the big screen.
Check out the official website for The Kid & I
Daniel Robert Epstein: It’s a pleasure to talk to you; I’ve been a fan for a very long time.
Penelope Spheeris: Well, thank you, I appreciate that. Where are you?
DRE:
I’m in New York.
PS:
How is that?
DRE:
New York’s kind of nasty today.
PS:
[laughs] I’m sorry to hear that.
DRE:
The weather I meant.
PS:
I know what you mean. It’s a beautiful day here though.
DRE:
[laughs] It is always beautiful in LA, isn’t it?
PS:
Yeah, most of the time.
DRE:
[laughs] Except for the people.
PS:
I know, don’t tell me, I know.
Did you get to see The Kid & I yet?
Did you get to see The Kid & I yet?
DRE:
Yes I did. I thought it was a very sweet movie, but obviously you guys were working on a limited budget.
PS:
Yeah, it was like five million. We all worked for scale. We shot it here in LA. So if you shoot in LA you can’t do a movie for less than four or five million if you are shooting union. But it was all financed by Eric’s dad.
DRE:
I don’t read the press notes for a movie until after I see the film because I like to be surprised. At first I thought Eric was an actor playing like he had cerebral palsy.
PS:
Oh that’s funny.
DRE:
I had no idea.
PS:
Yeah, it is a kind of a different situation in terms of how the movie came together. It is also a different situation in terms of how the movie is being distributed because we’re distributing it ourselves too.
DRE:
I was reading up on you a little bit more in preparation for this interview and apparently you see a clear delineation between your mainstream films and your non-mainstream films.
PS:
This is definitely not the studio mainstream film here.
DRE:
But it’s not The Decline of Western Civilization Part 4 either.
PS:
No, it’s not. It’s a narrative piece that Tom Arnold wrote.
DRE:
So was it Eric or Tom that made you want to direct this film?
PS:
I knew Tom from the way back days because I was story editor on Roseanne. There are thousands of directors in Hollywood. I don’t know why he decided to send it to me. But I guess he thought I could walk into a studio and get it financed. But we went to every studio and nobody wanted to do it. Then we went to every A list producer to see if we could get them attached and no one would do it. Then I said, “Hey Tom, I got an idea. Why don’t I produce it and we ask Eric’s dad for the money?” So that’s what happened. Tom took a credit because he was able to cast a lot of his friends in it, like Arnold Schwarzenegger. But basically I just worked my ass off for two and a half years on this thing because I just really believed in the kid and I wanted actually to tell a story that would bring a tear to people’s eyes. So it does that and makes them laugh as well.
DRE:
Was the story always going to start out as dark with Tom’s character going to kill himself?
PS:
Yeah, it’s interesting that you bring that up because that was always an issue. I was going for a young adult or a family audience even. But the beginning has Tom about ready to kill himself on pills and alcohol. But when we were shooting The Incredibles came out and it has a guy who jumps off a building trying to kill himself. So we thought we’d go for it.
DRE:
I just saw Tom in Happy Endings and what’s funny is that [Happy Endings writer/director] Don Roos cast him because they know one another from living next door to each other.
PS:
Eric lives right next door to Tom.
DRE:
Is he just hanging out with his neighbors all the time looking for work?
PS:
Yeah, nobody else hangs out with him. Just kidding. I love Tom. Tom lives next door to Eric and on the other side of Eric is Shaquille O’Neill.
DRE:
So that’s why that Shaq is in the movie!
PS:
Oh yeah. It is fun to try figure out the things that really are real and the things that aren’t. Eric’s mom was really worried about her son making a movie. So that was true.
DRE:
You are in The Kid & I as well.
PS:
I know. I can’t believe I actually was in my own movie.
DRE:
[laughs] How did that happen?
PS:
It is just the idea that it’s a movie in a movie. Tom wanted to have a character of a director. I said to him, “Hey man, you know Jim Cameron. Why don’t you get him to be the director?” He goes, “Nope, I think you should be the director.” So I did it and I kept forgetting that I actually had to be in the movie and on the day of shooting I’d wear the wrong clothes.
DRE:
What’s more difficult, directing the governor of California or directing Mike Myers?
PS:
[laughs] That’s a great question. Mike Myers by far.
The governor was actually a total pro. He didn’t have a lot of lines but man he had them down pat and so did Jamie Lee [Curtis]. They must have worked over the years with directors that did 50 takes because I’d get like three takes or so and say, “Ok, that’s it, we‘re done.” They were like, “Oh my God, you don’t need us anymore?”
The governor was actually a total pro. He didn’t have a lot of lines but man he had them down pat and so did Jamie Lee [Curtis]. They must have worked over the years with directors that did 50 takes because I’d get like three takes or so and say, “Ok, that’s it, we‘re done.” They were like, “Oh my God, you don’t need us anymore?”
DRE:
This is an independent movie that looks like a mainstream film, did it take you back to when you were doing films in a more guerilla style?
PS:
Definitely but we definitely tried to make it look good. We shot Hi-Def video. Though it definitely does have that guerilla style going for it because we had a very limited number of days and a very limited crew. Everybody brought their own wardrobe. Everybody just pitched in because we were all doing it for the kid. Nobody was ever in a bad mood either because you can’t be in a bad mood around Eric.
DRE:
When we will see Decline of Western Civilization Part 4?
PS:
I really want to do it. I swear to God. But coincidentally the Declines are coming out on DVD sometime soon. I’ve been working on it for three years now and we got some great stuff that I found in my vault. Now people won’t have to buy shitty bootlegs off of eBay.
DRE:
How much are we in decline now?
PS:
We’re in much more of a decline. The decline just keeps declining. It’s called entropy. It’s just really hard to imagine there ever being the kind of impact there was when punk rock happened in the late 70’s. I really wish there would be one big change like that again, but I don’t know if that’ll ever happen because everything has gotten homogenized.
DRE:
What’s interesting is that people are always talking about the era of the late 70’s and early 80’s. But there isn’t a lot of movement forward. The punk movement was supposed to get you to do your own thing. But now all anyone seems to do is look in the past.
PS:
That’s very true and that is the decline right there. We’re not moving forward, we’re moving backwards.
Me and Johnny Rotten have been talking about doing a movie of his book, No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks. We actually have a script done so hopefully that’s going to happen at some point in our careers.
Me and Johnny Rotten have been talking about doing a movie of his book, No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks. We actually have a script done so hopefully that’s going to happen at some point in our careers.
DRE:
So who wrote the script?
PS:
A young kid whose name I can’t tell you. But he’s a kid straight out of college. He has written it by himself with my guidance.
DRE:
Who would play Johnny?
PS:
John wants Justin Timberlake [laughs]. Isn’t that hilarious? Sometimes I think he’s joking, but sometimes I think he’s for real. I think he really feels that Justin Timberlake can do it.
DRE:
For the last few years you’ve done TV and a couple of smaller documentaries. Do you see yourself not doing big studio comedies anymore?
PS:
Yes I see myself not doing them because they are such a headache.
DRE:
I heard that Senseless was a very difficult shoot.
PS:
It was difficult. They made me reshoot the ending, which I think hurt the movie quite a bit. I got really disillusioned to be honest with you. While I was finishing up Senseless I went out to the Burning Man festival and somebody slipped some ecstasy in my beer. I had the most amazing experience even though I was so sick; I thought I was going to die. But when I woke up I realized that I don’t want to do any studio movies anymore. I’m just going to do documentaries and whatever the hell movies I want to make. It turned out to be a cool thing.
DRE:
With the studio movies you’re happy with. Why did they turn out good?
PS:
I think it is because the times were different then. For the most part studio movies have huge budgets. They don’t do anything under 30 to 40 million dollars. When you have that much money at stake, you have so many people breathing down your neck. I really feel kind of guilty spending 80 million dollars. People are starving in the world. When we did Wayne’s World it was 14 million dollars and they didn’t bug us too much because they just thought it was some little movie that nobody was ever going to see. We showed them.
DRE:
When I saw the Laverne and Shirley scene in Wayne’s World. I literally fell out of my seat in the theater laughing.
PS:
[laughs] That’s awesome. I’m so glad. That wasn’t in the original script. We were just hanging out on the lot one day and Mike says, “Hey, this is the set for Laverne and Shirley, why don’t we write a new scene?”
DRE:
I’m sure you’ve been offered many big films.
PS:
I’ve turned down Legally Blonde. I’ve turned down so many huge movies over the years but I’m very happy doing independent movies. Now with all the technology it is really liberating. So I don’t have any desire to go back to making studio movies at all. I don’t need the money. Thank God, from Wayne’s World. I don’t need the money.
DRE:
What else are you working on besides the Johnny movie?
PS:
I’ve been working on a script for a Janis Joplin movie that hopefully might shoot in the springtime. We want to cast Pink, but let’s see how that works out.
DRE:
What made you think Pink could play Janis?
PS:
The most awesome screen test where we dressed her up like Janis Joplin and she sang three songs and shot three scenes. She did such a great job. She’s my first choice but let’s see how everybody’s schedules work out.
DRE:
What do you think of SuicideGirls?
PS:
I think it is graphically and visually so beautiful. When I go on the website, I have to turn it off because my boyfriend stands behind me [laughs].
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
by Daniel Robert Epstein
SG Username: AndersWolleck
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