IPOD
RADIO
Dillinger Escape Plan's Greg Puciato
By Erin Broadley
Dec 12, 2007
Every touring band has that Spinal Tap moment where it gets lost backstage trying to make a grand entrance. While the crowd chants and waits, the band wanders through unfamiliar corridors, totally fucking lost. Hello Cleveland! At this point, it's safe to assume that most, if not all, road warriors have shared some experience that blurs the lines between documentary and mockumentary. The Dillinger Escape Plan, on the other hand, shares something different.
Much like Spinal Tap lost drummers to mysterious gardening accidents and spontaneous combustion; Dillinger has also lost members in a series of bizarrely unfortunate events. Bassist Adam Doll was left paralyzed from the chest down after a car accident, original singer Dimitri Minakakis hightailed it because of the pressure, guitarist Brian Benoit quit after nerve damage in his left hand left him unable to play, culminating with drummer Chris Pennie's sudden departure this summer to join Coheed and Cambria, just days before Dillinger stepped into the studio.
For the Dillinger Escape Plan, none of this is parody. It's reality. And when your drummer leaves your explosive hardcore band for one that writes space-epics about dragons and unicorns, there’s nothing funny about it.
Ire Works, the band's third full-length album, channels this frustration with a level of control and focus unmatched on their previous releases. Ire Works has been hailed as the band's best work to date and I agree. While 1999's Calculating Infinity broke us in and 2004's Miss Machine introduced us to new singer Greg Puciato, 2007's Ire Works finds Dillinger stronger than ever, despite--or by way of--the obstacles the band has overcome.
While the rest of the band (Ben Weinman/guitar, Liam Wilson/bass, Jeff Tuttle/guitar, Gil Sharone/drums) packed for Dillinger's first tour in over a year, SuicideGirls caught up with Greg to chat…
Erin Broadley: The last time you an interviewed with SuicideGirls was for Miss Machine, the first record you recorded with the band. How was the process with Ire Works? I assume the lineup changes made things a bit harder this time around…
Greg Puciato: Yeah, definitely. Most of the record was written before the whole Chris thing went down so, as far as writing, that wasn’t that big of a deal. Seventy percent of the record was written before that all went down so it wasn’t the end of the world. It’s obvious that Ben writes pretty much all the music anyway… me and Ben have developed a language over the years. Besides that, we just feel more comfortable with what we bring to the table individually. I definitely don’t wear my influences on my sleeve as much as I did three years ago. I don’t feel any pressure. We felt a lot of pressure last time because of how successful Calculating Infinity was.
EB:
Oh, of course. Plus it seemed like a lot of people wanted to make this big deal about you versus Dimitri.
GP:
Yeah, it’s really annoying because he and I never thought of it that way. I was the supporter of him and he was always a supporter of me. It was always weird to us, we couldn’t really understand. That was one of the reasons why we wanted him to be on this record… Just so people saw that it wasn’t some David Lee Roth/Sammy Hagar thing. [Laughs]
EB:
[Laughs]
GP:
[Dimitri] just can’t really do it anymore. He doesn’t want to. Some people, especially when you’ve been around for this long and you’re playing music this intense… We’re not a band where this is a hobby, where we have jobs and decide to go on tour. It’s not a thing we do during the summer. This is a grind and it wears you down and it destroys your personal life, pretty much, if you don’t put a lot of effort into it. We’re not 21 and 22 anymore where we were just excited for the pure sake of going on tour. When you’re 27, 28, or 29 and 30 it’s like, “Oh, I’m gonna go on tour and eat truck stop food for a year.” [Laughs] You know what I mean?
EB:
[Laughs] It’s kind of like sex -- when you're younger, you're just happy to get laid but now it takes a lot more work.
GP:
Yeah, totally. Your standards are higher; you have longer-term things to do. I think some people, for whatever reason, get cold feet and are like, “I am out of here.” I mean, Brian’s hand doesn’t really work anymore so that wasn’t really his decision.
EB:
I read that you guys had found out about Chris [Pennie] joining Coheed and Cambria via the Internet. Ben said it was pretty embarrassing.
GP:
Yeah, everybody makes the thing with Chris out to be like he left us to join Coheed. But Coheed was just the life raft that he took; he was already looking to jump off the boat. There’ve been major problems with him and Ben since as long as I can remember.
EB:
Yeah, Ben said that it had already become like a standoff situation.
GP:
Yeah, I mean, no one knows this but Ben quit last year. No one knows this. We haven’t told people this, we were actually on tour with Coheed and Cambria last year and [Ben and Chris] had a huge fight. Ben flew home, he was like, “I quit; I can’t deal with Chris anymore.” When we got back home, we all talked it over and it seemed like it was cool. We had a meeting and we brought some people that had known us for a long time to give Chris and Ben perspective. For whatever reason, Chris couldn’t put old stuff behind him and he kept holding old things over Ben’s head, in particular. We knew that he was playing with Coheed… He told us that he was going to help them with drums on a record and the next thing we knew we read online that he was going with them on Warped Tour. We were just like, “Hey man, you aren’t planning on doing Warped Tour with them?” He’s like, “Yeah, I think I am.” We’re just like, “Oh.”
EB:
It’s like getting dumped via text message or something. Are you kidding me?
GP:
Chris was delusional enough to think that he could be in both bands, which was really mind-blowing. He was like, “I don’t see why it matters.” I’m like, “What do you mean? It matters because we record a record during that time.” He said, “Well, we can do both -- I’ll just do the record when I get back from the tour.” We were like, “No, this is a job. We’re not little kids that you tell you can’t come out to play. It’s like telling us you can’t go to work today.” I mean, obviously people expect us to have a big grudge against Chris but I could really care less.
EB:
Well, the reviews are in for the album and they’re great. It’s being called one of your best, if not your best, work to date. Gil Sharone is amazing.
GP:
Gil’s ridiculous and as a person he could not fit in better at this point in time. The energy in the band -- honestly, I haven’t felt this good about this band in terms of the people and the dynamic since probably 2003 or 2002. As far as the record goes, he definitely added a spark to our playing and our writing.
EB:
Right, right. Sometimes you don’t realize until after the fact that you needed a kick in the ass, or fresh blood, so to speak.
GP:
Totally, that’s what it was too. We were a little paralyzed because we always felt Chris was like a Phenom. We were being held hostage by his talent a little bit and, you know, we had already put feelers out to some drummers, just in case a situation, like this, were to occur. We talked to some people who were the cream of the crop in terms of their style and they were all like, “No way would I be able to play that.” We were just like, “Shit. We’re really up shit creek now if these people can’t do it.” We felt like we had to try to hang on to Chris and then, when he left, we were just like, “What do we do now?” Everyone and their mother was coming up to us and being like, “You know, my cousin’s friend plays drums.”
EB:
[Laughs]
GP:
We’re like, “Oh my God, we’re never going to find anyone.” Finally a friend of mine, said, “The only person I’ve ever met that could do it, that in my opinion is actually better than Chris, is Gil Sharone.”
EB:
Yeah, he’s kind of like a musician’s musician.
GP:
Yeah, totally. Drummers know who he is but I didn’t know. He called us up and we sent him demos of two of our most difficult songs on the record to play. We thought that maybe two or three weeks later he’d call us saying “I can’t do this.” Or he would play it and it would just be so wrong. He called me, literally less than 48 hours later and he said, “You’re on speaker phone… can you hear me?” I said, “Yeah.”
EB:
He just nailed it over the phone?
GP:
Destroyed it. Just destroyed it and, to prove a point, slowed it down to half speed and played it perfectly. I was like “Alright, cool man, we’ll be in touch.” And then called Ben just freaking out and was like, “Oh my God!!”
EB:
Well, some consider Ire Works your angriest album to date. Do you agree?
GP:
I don’t really. People say that to me all the time but it’s so hard for me to understand because there’s so much more emotion. Anger is a base emotion, it’s like a kid’s emotion.
EB:
Yeah, anger is very impulsive.
GP:
That’s it exactly. I feel like a lot of it is more frustration than anger.
EB:
I think this album is more complex than just being pissed.
GP:
Anger is like the Hulk… I don’t ever feel that angry. I don’t walk around when I’m pissed off. I think that’s one misunderstanding about us -- that we just walk around pissed off and that all our songs are super pissed and we have a gripe with the world. It’s more about dealing with frustrations, and this time we just happen to have way more of them than usual. Last year just sucked! This year and a half of my life was the shittiest time to go through but now I look back favorably because of what came from it. I feel like if I hadn’t had this time period, we wouldn’t have written this record. So, in a way, I’m thankful for it. But it’s one of those things… I would never want to do that again. It could have turned out a lot shittier. We managed to take that situation and find people that are better suited to be in the band now. We managed to actually translate it into energy and fuel, instead of letting us get bogged down.
EB:
You didn’t let it handicap you.
GP:
Yeah. So the way I look at it, it happened for a reason. You always hear people that make some type of art from some negative energy or a band like us [that] has some pain. You have to go through shitty times to have [an album like this] come out of you and I agree. I don’t think you can sing about being in love unless you’ve been in love.
EB:
And you can’t really sing about love unless you’ve had your heart broken.
GP:
You can, but [people will] see through it. We’re happy now. There’s a lot of energy in our music. It’s not depressing or…
EB:
It’s strong and aggressive but it’s not wallowing. I think when people hear a record that’s aggressive and outspoken, often it can be misinterpreted as anger. Ire Works is not a bitchy record.
GP:
That’s what I’m saying -- a lot of the time when you hear the word anger you think of someone whining. It’s not really like that. [It’s just] dealing with it and having resolution at some point.
EB:
For the past several years, one trend in rock been about nostalgia to a degree and yet Dillinger has plugged along, pushed new ground, changed things up and seems relatively unfazed by all the backpedaling that I’ve seen, at least in the hard rock world. How do you see the band existing amongst its peers?
GP:
It’s weird because I feel like, attitude-wise, we see ourselves in a different light in terms of genre. I feel like we have more in common with someone who would be innovative in another genre. It’s more about the intent. I feel we have more in common with Radiohead or Tool or [other bands that are] trying to be progressive. The mainstream rock period that we’re just coming out of has been pretty bad now for a while.
EB:
Right. [Laughs]
GP:
It’s a lazy society out there. I feel like people don’t put out the same amount of effort -- music isn’t really prioritized, even on things like music channels. MTV is not really the focus anymore. It’s out there… it’s something you just have to find. There have been other bands that have come and for a minute they rode a wave of trendy-ness three times as big as we are, and then a year later they’re not half as popular as we are. We’re never going to have that big surge…
EB:
But the surge is never what changes things. I mean if you’re truly a musician, truly an artist of any sort, hopefully what changes things is the continued longevity and being able to develop a statement.
GP:
That’s the thing -- people don’t have any time to develop an idea. Everyone’s pretty much been raised as ADD. It’s not a horrible thing, per se, because I really like having 500 channels instead of ten, but you have to make sure you’re not training yourself to not be able to appreciate something for more than a minute. Just because you have the Internet, you can go anywhere in a second, you have a million channels to choose from and have everything available for you constantly, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be able to sit down and take something in for more than a minute. I’m not saying there’s nothing to be said for Big Macs and candy -- they have their place, they’re fun -- but I feel like there’s something deeper.
EB:
Dillinger is considered definitive of a certain genre and also considered a landmark band for a certain playing style. How do you guys avoid falling into a rut?
GP:
Right. Well, what we’re doing now doesn’t have much to do with where we’ve already been. Calculating Infinity was written almost 10 years ago. Ben has no desire to [repeat himself]. It’s not like he’s not stimulated by his music anymore -- he still writes songs like that at times -- but [we take risks because] we’re not really worried about alienating any one person. We’ve already alienated pretty much every person that can be alienated.
EB:
[Laughs]
GP:
We’re so diverse now… we realized this was a good thing. No, we’re not selling out the scene. That stuff is ridiculous. The scene will never be there for you. You know what I mean? I don’t care what anyone says.
EB:
Yeah, the scene rarely returns the loyalty.
GP:
If you keep your music in some little kid’s back pocket, just for the sake of that kid not telling you you’re lame for not screaming all the time anymore or playing 100 miles per hour, you’re going to get burned by that kid one day. He’s going to wake up one day and decide he doesn’t like you anymore anyway. You have to do what makes you happy, intrinsically. So we do that and we kind of never thought that things were going to get this big in the first place. So we already won, so to speak. Let’s just do what we want and make the music that we want. As long as the vibe to us is the same and the Dillinger Escape Plan vibe is there, we’re not really interested in consigning ourselves into one thing. We all have too much to offer to do that.
EB:
Yeah, you don’t want to be a band that becomes a caricature of itself.
GP:
Right. I don’t want to put out the same thing over and over again. You get older, you go through life, and you have more emotions to draw from.
EB:
When it comes to rock, it seems like a lot of people have this Peter Pan complex where they don’t want bands to grow up.
GP:
Yeah, I know.
EB:
Like they just want them to stay Lost Boys forever. I mean, it’s a fucking cartoon for a reason.
GP:
It’s weird because it’s also been exaggerated because of how successful a lot of musicians have been at young ages. We are growing up and we have more life to draw from than just being pissed at what’s going on at school. There’s a greater depth of emotion, there’s a greater range, and we’re lucky enough that we have the ability to do other things besides scream and play at a million miles an hour. That’s not everything we deal with, emotionally. We’re lucky we have the tool to be able to express ourselves other ways. I don’t want to have to have 30 side projects to say everything I want to say.
EB:
Very well put.
GP:
I think that, really, most of the people seem to be growing up with us.
EB:
On another note, in November, Revolver Magazine voted you one of the “37 Greatest Metal Frontmen" of all time.
GP:
It’s kind of ridiculous.
EB:
This is what I want to know, Greg… Why is it 37? Why not 40 or 30? [Laughs]
GP:
I have no idea. Why isn’t it 50 or 60? That’s just a bizarre number. It’s such a weird line, if I’m in a metal band, which is debatable. If I’m on the list, why not Henry Rollins? Why is HR from Bad Brains not there? They’re not metal but I guess they’re just as much metal as we are. It’s weird to me, I was looking at the page I was on and the other people, everybody else on the page is rich and really big.
EB:
[Laughs]
GP:
I was like, “What’s going on?” The other people on that page were people that I would buy magazines for when I was nine-years-old and those people were in it like Axl Rose and Ozzy Osbourne. I was like, this to me right now is comical but I wish I could take this magazine back in time and show my nine-year-old self that it can happen.
EB:
Oh my God, you’d probably give your nine-year-old self a heart attack.
GP:
Yeah, he would probably die. Like, “God, I can’t wait to be 27.”
EB:
[Laughs]
GP:
But it was cool, it was one of those things you become so numb that it’s not so big of a deal. It doesn’t mean so much to me to be in magazines and stuff. It’s cool that someone cares but you can’t take it too seriously.
EB:
To wrap things up, you guys are going on tour…
GP:
Finally, thank God. We were supposed to be on tour a month and a half ago but Ben broke his foot. Just one thing after another. We had everything taken care of, the flights…
EB:
The bags are packed.
GP:
The bags are packed and flights… We had to go to L.A. and film two videos and literally like three days before we start the tour, Ben breaks his foot filming the video. He’s never broken anything playing. Of all the shows and all the craziness that’s gone on, he breaks it in a video. He’s been walking around with this big, soft, boot looking thing on his foot. Finally, now we’re [going on tour]. I really hope a piano doesn’t land on me or something insane happens. I’m really starting to think we should just live in bubbles.
EB:
Helmets, knee pads…
GP:
Yeah, anything. Particularly Ben, because he’s like Dennis the Menace, I just want to wrap him in bubble wrap and just sit him down, like, “Do not move. I will bring you food. Do not do anything that will jeopardize anything.”
EB:
[Laughs]
GP:
We were down to the wire as far as money goes too… Living off of credit cards for a month, trying to wait so we could go on tour. It’s going to be really cool because we haven’t played a show in a year and a half. We’ve never played with this lineup before. We haven’t played a new song in three and a half years. We have a new record. It’s just really crazy to think about… that’s a really long time for people to still care. So that’s a testament to our fans and that we’re doing something right if we can even afford to take off that long.
EB:
It’s not a race, it never should be.
GP:
Eventually, if you stay on course, people will pay more attention to you because you’ll be the constant. If you were to look up at the sky and you saw a bunch of shit moving around super fast, coming and going, you might at first be like “Wow, look at all that stuff moving around.” But over time, if you realize that one of those things is moving at one speed constantly through all the stuff moving around, you’d be like, “Look at that thing, it’s undeterred by the things around it, it’s still going where it’s going.”
EB:
It knows where it wants to go and it’s on the path.
GP:
Right. That’s something people respect about us.
Ire Works is in stores now. For more information on DEP or to catch the band on tour, go to www.myspace.com/dillingerescapeplan
Every touring band has that Spinal Tap moment where it gets lost backstage trying to make a grand entrance. While the crowd chants and waits, the band wanders through unfamiliar corridors, totally fucking lost. Hello Cleveland! At this point, it's safe to assume that most, if not all, road warriors have shared some experience that blurs the lines between documentary and mockumentary. The Dillinger Escape Plan, on the other hand, shares something different.
Much like Spinal Tap lost drummers to mysterious gardening accidents and spontaneous combustion; Dillinger has also lost members in a series of bizarrely unfortunate events. Bassist Adam Doll was left paralyzed from the chest down after a car accident, original singer Dimitri Minakakis hightailed it because of the pressure, guitarist Brian Benoit quit after nerve damage in his left hand left him unable to play, culminating with drummer Chris Pennie's sudden departure this summer to join Coheed and Cambria, just days before Dillinger stepped into the studio.
For the Dillinger Escape Plan, none of this is parody. It's reality. And when your drummer leaves your explosive hardcore band for one that writes space-epics about dragons and unicorns, there’s nothing funny about it.
Ire Works, the band's third full-length album, channels this frustration with a level of control and focus unmatched on their previous releases. Ire Works has been hailed as the band's best work to date and I agree. While 1999's Calculating Infinity broke us in and 2004's Miss Machine introduced us to new singer Greg Puciato, 2007's Ire Works finds Dillinger stronger than ever, despite--or by way of--the obstacles the band has overcome.
While the rest of the band (Ben Weinman/guitar, Liam Wilson/bass, Jeff Tuttle/guitar, Gil Sharone/drums) packed for Dillinger's first tour in over a year, SuicideGirls caught up with Greg to chat…
Erin Broadley: The last time you an interviewed with SuicideGirls was for Miss Machine, the first record you recorded with the band. How was the process with Ire Works? I assume the lineup changes made things a bit harder this time around…
Greg Puciato: Yeah, definitely. Most of the record was written before the whole Chris thing went down so, as far as writing, that wasn’t that big of a deal. Seventy percent of the record was written before that all went down so it wasn’t the end of the world. It’s obvious that Ben writes pretty much all the music anyway… me and Ben have developed a language over the years. Besides that, we just feel more comfortable with what we bring to the table individually. I definitely don’t wear my influences on my sleeve as much as I did three years ago. I don’t feel any pressure. We felt a lot of pressure last time because of how successful Calculating Infinity was.
EB:
Oh, of course. Plus it seemed like a lot of people wanted to make this big deal about you versus Dimitri.
GP:
Yeah, it’s really annoying because he and I never thought of it that way. I was the supporter of him and he was always a supporter of me. It was always weird to us, we couldn’t really understand. That was one of the reasons why we wanted him to be on this record… Just so people saw that it wasn’t some David Lee Roth/Sammy Hagar thing. [Laughs]
EB:
[Laughs]
GP:
[Dimitri] just can’t really do it anymore. He doesn’t want to. Some people, especially when you’ve been around for this long and you’re playing music this intense… We’re not a band where this is a hobby, where we have jobs and decide to go on tour. It’s not a thing we do during the summer. This is a grind and it wears you down and it destroys your personal life, pretty much, if you don’t put a lot of effort into it. We’re not 21 and 22 anymore where we were just excited for the pure sake of going on tour. When you’re 27, 28, or 29 and 30 it’s like, “Oh, I’m gonna go on tour and eat truck stop food for a year.” [Laughs] You know what I mean?
EB:
[Laughs] It’s kind of like sex -- when you're younger, you're just happy to get laid but now it takes a lot more work.
GP:
Yeah, totally. Your standards are higher; you have longer-term things to do. I think some people, for whatever reason, get cold feet and are like, “I am out of here.” I mean, Brian’s hand doesn’t really work anymore so that wasn’t really his decision.
EB:
I read that you guys had found out about Chris [Pennie] joining Coheed and Cambria via the Internet. Ben said it was pretty embarrassing.
GP:
Yeah, everybody makes the thing with Chris out to be like he left us to join Coheed. But Coheed was just the life raft that he took; he was already looking to jump off the boat. There’ve been major problems with him and Ben since as long as I can remember.
EB:
Yeah, Ben said that it had already become like a standoff situation.
GP:
Yeah, I mean, no one knows this but Ben quit last year. No one knows this. We haven’t told people this, we were actually on tour with Coheed and Cambria last year and [Ben and Chris] had a huge fight. Ben flew home, he was like, “I quit; I can’t deal with Chris anymore.” When we got back home, we all talked it over and it seemed like it was cool. We had a meeting and we brought some people that had known us for a long time to give Chris and Ben perspective. For whatever reason, Chris couldn’t put old stuff behind him and he kept holding old things over Ben’s head, in particular. We knew that he was playing with Coheed… He told us that he was going to help them with drums on a record and the next thing we knew we read online that he was going with them on Warped Tour. We were just like, “Hey man, you aren’t planning on doing Warped Tour with them?” He’s like, “Yeah, I think I am.” We’re just like, “Oh.”
EB:
It’s like getting dumped via text message or something. Are you kidding me?
GP:
Chris was delusional enough to think that he could be in both bands, which was really mind-blowing. He was like, “I don’t see why it matters.” I’m like, “What do you mean? It matters because we record a record during that time.” He said, “Well, we can do both -- I’ll just do the record when I get back from the tour.” We were like, “No, this is a job. We’re not little kids that you tell you can’t come out to play. It’s like telling us you can’t go to work today.” I mean, obviously people expect us to have a big grudge against Chris but I could really care less.
EB:
Well, the reviews are in for the album and they’re great. It’s being called one of your best, if not your best, work to date. Gil Sharone is amazing.
GP:
Gil’s ridiculous and as a person he could not fit in better at this point in time. The energy in the band -- honestly, I haven’t felt this good about this band in terms of the people and the dynamic since probably 2003 or 2002. As far as the record goes, he definitely added a spark to our playing and our writing.
EB:
Right, right. Sometimes you don’t realize until after the fact that you needed a kick in the ass, or fresh blood, so to speak.
GP:
Totally, that’s what it was too. We were a little paralyzed because we always felt Chris was like a Phenom. We were being held hostage by his talent a little bit and, you know, we had already put feelers out to some drummers, just in case a situation, like this, were to occur. We talked to some people who were the cream of the crop in terms of their style and they were all like, “No way would I be able to play that.” We were just like, “Shit. We’re really up shit creek now if these people can’t do it.” We felt like we had to try to hang on to Chris and then, when he left, we were just like, “What do we do now?” Everyone and their mother was coming up to us and being like, “You know, my cousin’s friend plays drums.”
EB:
[Laughs]
GP:
We’re like, “Oh my God, we’re never going to find anyone.” Finally a friend of mine, said, “The only person I’ve ever met that could do it, that in my opinion is actually better than Chris, is Gil Sharone.”
EB:
Yeah, he’s kind of like a musician’s musician.
GP:
Yeah, totally. Drummers know who he is but I didn’t know. He called us up and we sent him demos of two of our most difficult songs on the record to play. We thought that maybe two or three weeks later he’d call us saying “I can’t do this.” Or he would play it and it would just be so wrong. He called me, literally less than 48 hours later and he said, “You’re on speaker phone… can you hear me?” I said, “Yeah.”
EB:
He just nailed it over the phone?
GP:
Destroyed it. Just destroyed it and, to prove a point, slowed it down to half speed and played it perfectly. I was like “Alright, cool man, we’ll be in touch.” And then called Ben just freaking out and was like, “Oh my God!!”
EB:
Well, some consider Ire Works your angriest album to date. Do you agree?
GP:
I don’t really. People say that to me all the time but it’s so hard for me to understand because there’s so much more emotion. Anger is a base emotion, it’s like a kid’s emotion.
EB:
Yeah, anger is very impulsive.
GP:
That’s it exactly. I feel like a lot of it is more frustration than anger.
EB:
I think this album is more complex than just being pissed.
GP:
Anger is like the Hulk… I don’t ever feel that angry. I don’t walk around when I’m pissed off. I think that’s one misunderstanding about us -- that we just walk around pissed off and that all our songs are super pissed and we have a gripe with the world. It’s more about dealing with frustrations, and this time we just happen to have way more of them than usual. Last year just sucked! This year and a half of my life was the shittiest time to go through but now I look back favorably because of what came from it. I feel like if I hadn’t had this time period, we wouldn’t have written this record. So, in a way, I’m thankful for it. But it’s one of those things… I would never want to do that again. It could have turned out a lot shittier. We managed to take that situation and find people that are better suited to be in the band now. We managed to actually translate it into energy and fuel, instead of letting us get bogged down.
EB:
You didn’t let it handicap you.
GP:
Yeah. So the way I look at it, it happened for a reason. You always hear people that make some type of art from some negative energy or a band like us [that] has some pain. You have to go through shitty times to have [an album like this] come out of you and I agree. I don’t think you can sing about being in love unless you’ve been in love.
EB:
And you can’t really sing about love unless you’ve had your heart broken.
GP:
You can, but [people will] see through it. We’re happy now. There’s a lot of energy in our music. It’s not depressing or…
EB:
It’s strong and aggressive but it’s not wallowing. I think when people hear a record that’s aggressive and outspoken, often it can be misinterpreted as anger. Ire Works is not a bitchy record.
GP:
That’s what I’m saying -- a lot of the time when you hear the word anger you think of someone whining. It’s not really like that. [It’s just] dealing with it and having resolution at some point.
EB:
For the past several years, one trend in rock been about nostalgia to a degree and yet Dillinger has plugged along, pushed new ground, changed things up and seems relatively unfazed by all the backpedaling that I’ve seen, at least in the hard rock world. How do you see the band existing amongst its peers?
GP:
It’s weird because I feel like, attitude-wise, we see ourselves in a different light in terms of genre. I feel like we have more in common with someone who would be innovative in another genre. It’s more about the intent. I feel we have more in common with Radiohead or Tool or [other bands that are] trying to be progressive. The mainstream rock period that we’re just coming out of has been pretty bad now for a while.
EB:
Right. [Laughs]
GP:
It’s a lazy society out there. I feel like people don’t put out the same amount of effort -- music isn’t really prioritized, even on things like music channels. MTV is not really the focus anymore. It’s out there… it’s something you just have to find. There have been other bands that have come and for a minute they rode a wave of trendy-ness three times as big as we are, and then a year later they’re not half as popular as we are. We’re never going to have that big surge…
EB:
But the surge is never what changes things. I mean if you’re truly a musician, truly an artist of any sort, hopefully what changes things is the continued longevity and being able to develop a statement.
GP:
That’s the thing -- people don’t have any time to develop an idea. Everyone’s pretty much been raised as ADD. It’s not a horrible thing, per se, because I really like having 500 channels instead of ten, but you have to make sure you’re not training yourself to not be able to appreciate something for more than a minute. Just because you have the Internet, you can go anywhere in a second, you have a million channels to choose from and have everything available for you constantly, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be able to sit down and take something in for more than a minute. I’m not saying there’s nothing to be said for Big Macs and candy -- they have their place, they’re fun -- but I feel like there’s something deeper.
EB:
Dillinger is considered definitive of a certain genre and also considered a landmark band for a certain playing style. How do you guys avoid falling into a rut?
GP:
Right. Well, what we’re doing now doesn’t have much to do with where we’ve already been. Calculating Infinity was written almost 10 years ago. Ben has no desire to [repeat himself]. It’s not like he’s not stimulated by his music anymore -- he still writes songs like that at times -- but [we take risks because] we’re not really worried about alienating any one person. We’ve already alienated pretty much every person that can be alienated.
EB:
[Laughs]
GP:
We’re so diverse now… we realized this was a good thing. No, we’re not selling out the scene. That stuff is ridiculous. The scene will never be there for you. You know what I mean? I don’t care what anyone says.
EB:
Yeah, the scene rarely returns the loyalty.
GP:
If you keep your music in some little kid’s back pocket, just for the sake of that kid not telling you you’re lame for not screaming all the time anymore or playing 100 miles per hour, you’re going to get burned by that kid one day. He’s going to wake up one day and decide he doesn’t like you anymore anyway. You have to do what makes you happy, intrinsically. So we do that and we kind of never thought that things were going to get this big in the first place. So we already won, so to speak. Let’s just do what we want and make the music that we want. As long as the vibe to us is the same and the Dillinger Escape Plan vibe is there, we’re not really interested in consigning ourselves into one thing. We all have too much to offer to do that.
EB:
Yeah, you don’t want to be a band that becomes a caricature of itself.
GP:
Right. I don’t want to put out the same thing over and over again. You get older, you go through life, and you have more emotions to draw from.
EB:
When it comes to rock, it seems like a lot of people have this Peter Pan complex where they don’t want bands to grow up.
GP:
Yeah, I know.
EB:
Like they just want them to stay Lost Boys forever. I mean, it’s a fucking cartoon for a reason.
GP:
It’s weird because it’s also been exaggerated because of how successful a lot of musicians have been at young ages. We are growing up and we have more life to draw from than just being pissed at what’s going on at school. There’s a greater depth of emotion, there’s a greater range, and we’re lucky enough that we have the ability to do other things besides scream and play at a million miles an hour. That’s not everything we deal with, emotionally. We’re lucky we have the tool to be able to express ourselves other ways. I don’t want to have to have 30 side projects to say everything I want to say.
EB:
Very well put.
GP:
I think that, really, most of the people seem to be growing up with us.
EB:
On another note, in November, Revolver Magazine voted you one of the “37 Greatest Metal Frontmen" of all time.
GP:
It’s kind of ridiculous.
EB:
This is what I want to know, Greg… Why is it 37? Why not 40 or 30? [Laughs]
GP:
I have no idea. Why isn’t it 50 or 60? That’s just a bizarre number. It’s such a weird line, if I’m in a metal band, which is debatable. If I’m on the list, why not Henry Rollins? Why is HR from Bad Brains not there? They’re not metal but I guess they’re just as much metal as we are. It’s weird to me, I was looking at the page I was on and the other people, everybody else on the page is rich and really big.
EB:
[Laughs]
GP:
I was like, “What’s going on?” The other people on that page were people that I would buy magazines for when I was nine-years-old and those people were in it like Axl Rose and Ozzy Osbourne. I was like, this to me right now is comical but I wish I could take this magazine back in time and show my nine-year-old self that it can happen.
EB:
Oh my God, you’d probably give your nine-year-old self a heart attack.
GP:
Yeah, he would probably die. Like, “God, I can’t wait to be 27.”
EB:
[Laughs]
GP:
But it was cool, it was one of those things you become so numb that it’s not so big of a deal. It doesn’t mean so much to me to be in magazines and stuff. It’s cool that someone cares but you can’t take it too seriously.
EB:
To wrap things up, you guys are going on tour…
GP:
Finally, thank God. We were supposed to be on tour a month and a half ago but Ben broke his foot. Just one thing after another. We had everything taken care of, the flights…
EB:
The bags are packed.
GP:
The bags are packed and flights… We had to go to L.A. and film two videos and literally like three days before we start the tour, Ben breaks his foot filming the video. He’s never broken anything playing. Of all the shows and all the craziness that’s gone on, he breaks it in a video. He’s been walking around with this big, soft, boot looking thing on his foot. Finally, now we’re [going on tour]. I really hope a piano doesn’t land on me or something insane happens. I’m really starting to think we should just live in bubbles.
EB:
Helmets, knee pads…
GP:
Yeah, anything. Particularly Ben, because he’s like Dennis the Menace, I just want to wrap him in bubble wrap and just sit him down, like, “Do not move. I will bring you food. Do not do anything that will jeopardize anything.”
EB:
[Laughs]
GP:
We were down to the wire as far as money goes too… Living off of credit cards for a month, trying to wait so we could go on tour. It’s going to be really cool because we haven’t played a show in a year and a half. We’ve never played with this lineup before. We haven’t played a new song in three and a half years. We have a new record. It’s just really crazy to think about… that’s a really long time for people to still care. So that’s a testament to our fans and that we’re doing something right if we can even afford to take off that long.
EB:
It’s not a race, it never should be.
GP:
Eventually, if you stay on course, people will pay more attention to you because you’ll be the constant. If you were to look up at the sky and you saw a bunch of shit moving around super fast, coming and going, you might at first be like “Wow, look at all that stuff moving around.” But over time, if you realize that one of those things is moving at one speed constantly through all the stuff moving around, you’d be like, “Look at that thing, it’s undeterred by the things around it, it’s still going where it’s going.”
EB:
It knows where it wants to go and it’s on the path.
GP:
Right. That’s something people respect about us.
Ire Works is in stores now. For more information on DEP or to catch the band on tour, go to www.myspace.com/dillingerescapeplan
Ire Works is in stores now. For more information on DEP or to catch the band on tour, go to www.myspace.com/dillingerescapeplan
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